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> The idea was that so long as we retained the right to bear arms we would be able to keep tyranny in check. How's that working out for you? The vast majority

> The idea was that so long as we retained the right to bear arms we would be able to keep tyranny in check. How's that working out for you? The vast majority of my 2nd Amendment-supporting friends seem to support Trump, whose authoritarian statements and actions are like nothing seen in a US President. Possessing the means of insurrection doesn't entail having the judgment to use it appropriately.

the_trapper 9y ago
> The vast majority of my 2nd Amendment-supporting friends seem to support Trump... That is probably because the Democratic party platform pushes strongly for gun control. [1] I know many people who vote Republican in elections primarily because of this single issue. > ...whose authoritarian statements and actions are like nothing seen in a US President. Could you elaborate on this? I don't think Trump is a great president by any means, and several of his speeches, interviews, and Twitter rants are not very Presidential to say the least. However, I can't think of any authoritarian actions he has taken that are outside of his Constitutionally granted powers. [1] - https://www.democrats.org/party-platform#gun-violence https://www.democrats.org/party-platform#gun-violence
Chaebixi 9y ago
>> The idea was that so long as we retained the right to bear arms we would be able to keep tyranny in check. > How's that working out for you? ...Trump... Trump is not a tyrant, even though he'd probably like to be one if he could. > Possessing the means of insurrection doesn't entail having the judgment to use it appropriately. Unfortunately, there's no way to legislate judgement or restrict rights to only those with judgement. Insurrection by its very nature is illegal, even if it's necessary and right.
ropeadopepope 9y ago
> The vast majority of my 2nd Amendment-supporting friends seem to support Trump, whose authoritarian statements and actions are like nothing seen in a US President. Except for Obama, you mean? Trump hasn't done anything so far that Obama hasn't also done.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Trump hasn't done anything so far that Obama hasn't also done. This is obviously literally false (virtually all of Trump's official acts have been things that Obama did not do), and I can't see any obvious relevant non-literal sense where it is true. Even in a narrow sense of authoritarian approaches to gun rights, the Trump bump stock ban is an action that was specifically rejected by the Obama Administration, not on policy grounds, but because it exceeded the power of the executive branch without legislative change.
  - the_trapper 9y ago
    When I think of authoritarian Presidential actions, I think more of drone striking U.S. citizens without due process. [1] However, you're right the bump stock ban does feel like an overreach of the executive branch. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      > When I think of authoritarian Presidential actions, I think more of drone striking U.S. citizens without due process. The power of the President to wage war under a Congressional authorization, including when those fighting for the enemy include US citizens, is pretty firmly established. It's one of the reasons you really don't want Congress passing ludicrously broad authorizations and leaving them in force permanently.
  - ropeadopepope 9y ago
    > virtually all of Trump's official acts have been things that Obama did not do examples?
    - dragonwriter 9y ago
      For one, the Muslim ban. But really, everything. Other than trivial descriptions of ceremonial functions (“issued a Christmas proclamation”), and possibly some periodic renewals, there's not a lot that is remotely the same.

the_trapper 9y ago

> The vast majority of my 2nd Amendment-supporting friends seem to support Trump... That is probably because the Democratic party platform pushes strongly for gun control. [1] I know many people who vote Republican in elections primarily because of this single issue. > ...whose authoritarian statements and actions are like nothing seen in a US President. Could you elaborate on this? I don't think Trump is a great president by any means, and several of his speeches, interviews, and Twitter rants are not very Presidential to say the least. However, I can't think of any authoritarian actions he has taken that are outside of his Constitutionally granted powers. [1] - https://www.democrats.org/party-platform#gun-violence https://www.democrats.org/party-platform#gun-violence

Chaebixi 9y ago

>> The idea was that so long as we retained the right to bear arms we would be able to keep tyranny in check. > How's that working out for you? ...Trump... Trump is not a tyrant, even though he'd probably like to be one if he could. > Possessing the means of insurrection doesn't entail having the judgment to use it appropriately. Unfortunately, there's no way to legislate judgement or restrict rights to only those with judgement. Insurrection by its very nature is illegal, even if it's necessary and right.

ropeadopepope 9y ago

> The vast majority of my 2nd Amendment-supporting friends seem to support Trump, whose authoritarian statements and actions are like nothing seen in a US President. Except for Obama, you mean? Trump hasn't done anything so far that Obama hasn't also done.

dragonwriter 9y ago
> Trump hasn't done anything so far that Obama hasn't also done. This is obviously literally false (virtually all of Trump's official acts have been things that Obama did not do), and I can't see any obvious relevant non-literal sense where it is true. Even in a narrow sense of authoritarian approaches to gun rights, the Trump bump stock ban is an action that was specifically rejected by the Obama Administration, not on policy grounds, but because it exceeded the power of the executive branch without legislative change.
- the_trapper 9y ago
  When I think of authoritarian Presidential actions, I think more of drone striking U.S. citizens without due process. [1] However, you're right the bump stock ban does feel like an overreach of the executive branch. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > When I think of authoritarian Presidential actions, I think more of drone striking U.S. citizens without due process. The power of the President to wage war under a Congressional authorization, including when those fighting for the enemy include US citizens, is pretty firmly established. It's one of the reasons you really don't want Congress passing ludicrously broad authorizations and leaving them in force permanently.
- ropeadopepope 9y ago
  > virtually all of Trump's official acts have been things that Obama did not do examples?
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    For one, the Muslim ban. But really, everything. Other than trivial descriptions of ceremonial functions (“issued a Christmas proclamation”), and possibly some periodic renewals, there's not a lot that is remotely the same.