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"The strategies included using meditation to enhance intuition, relaxation, visualizing good fortune, and talking to at least one new person every week." These

"The strategies included using meditation to enhance intuition, relaxation, visualizing good fortune, and talking to at least one new person every week." These are basic techniques that have been taught by almost every spiritual system for thousands of years. Unfortunately for all of my atheist-materialist friends, you have to change your metaphysical views to employ these techniques.

marcus_holmes 9y ago
Atheist-materialist here. Also meditator, and visualiser. It's just psychology. No need to invoke deities.
- davebryand 9y ago
  It's not about deities, it's about whether there are ways to use consciousness to manipulate the material universe. Are there laws of the universe that are knowable through experience and intuition that do not yet have a scientific explanation? The traditions I mention say "yes", I would imagine an atheist-materialist would say "no". I would have said "no" up until just a few months ago.
  - maxpupmax 9y ago
    I think they all seem to have a pretty scientific explanation. Don't we see research on meditation pop up here almost every other week? I guess I'm pretty firmly in the atheist-materialist camp here. If you don't mind me asking, what happened to you to convince you otherwise?
    - davebryand 9y ago
      Thanks for asking. Here is a grab bag in rough order of events. (Spent years 1-20 as Catholic, and years 21-39 as an atheist) * Leaving my third "failed" startup, post YC. (For the record, my awesome co-founders sold to Cisco after I had left) * Working with a coach to find and clearly define my deepest values * Leaving San Francisco to align my life with those values * Deciding to search for the meaning of life * Truly realizing that the meaning of life isn't accumulation of money or stuff, and that my identity needn't be tied to those goals * Wrestling with my ego and deciding it does not deserve primacy * Donating many of my possessions * Fasting (many 2-3 day water fasts, 5 day as peak) * Reading 20-30 books on different spiritual traditions * Watching hundreds of hours of lectures on esoteric systems and spiritual traditions * Researching Tarot, Kaballah, Freemasonry, and other ancients systems of enlightenment * Studying Zen and Taoism * Learning about [Natural Law](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASUHN3gNxWo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASUHN3gNxWo) and allowing myself to honestly imagine if that is the way that the universe works * Experimenting with psychedelics * Practicing Transcendental Meditation twice daily * Getting out in nature and learning about plants * Explicitly working to balance my left and right brain by beginning to trust my intuition * Keeping a diary of synchronicities and searching for deeper connections than I previously allowed myself to believe could exist * Opening myself up to the possibility that there is more to the universe than that which has been explained by science * Learning the eight-circuit model of consciousness * Researching state of the art physics * Refactoring, uninstalling or rewriting the legacy operating system and long ago installed background processes that were my subconscious * Buying a house * Taking guitar lessons * Teaching myself to draw * Releasing fear and deciding to love everyone and everything * Adopting an amor fati attitude * Living for the present moment * Finding my higher self and living out of it on a daily basis
      - foldr 9y ago
        Holy shit. I'd rather be unenlightened than do all that.
        davebryand 9y ago
        I would have thought so, too--it just sort of happened :)
      - wilsonnb 9y ago
        The Wikipedia page for the eight-circuit model of consciousness explained what it was pretty well but presented no evidence or arguments in favor of it. Do you know of any sources that that give such arguments? I am also curious as to how state of the art physics fits into the rest of your list. I assume it's related to the eight-circuit model and opening yourself up to the possibility that there is more to the universe than that which has been explained by science, due to it's placement in the list, but I would be interested in knowing how those concepts relate in your mind.
        davebryand 9y ago
        Like most things that involve consciousness, the evidence is personal and experiential (Which is why people use the term psuedo-science for much of the information in this domain. Ironically, I now use that label as a signal for further research as opposed to something that I would reject out of hand). In my case, when I found the 8-circuit model, it was the best framework that I had found to explain the changes to my consciousness that I was experiencing. Like anything else that purports to describe reality, it's a model (the map), it's not truth (the territory). In terms of physics, you pretty much got it. Coming to understand that reality is much weirder and less understood than the Newtonian, mechanistic mental models that I grew up with was a revelation. I don't have actionable insights other than the relaxing of the assumption that there were authorities out there that had it all figured out.
        gowld 9y ago
        pseudo-science is deceptive promotion of falsehoods. Under-informed speculation is more "quasi-science"
- Ngunyan 9y ago
  Agnostic here. No deities were invoke by saying "almost every spiritual system". Spiritual ≠ Belief in deities. But then again, the post you were replying to is also mistaken that atheist-materialists have to change their metaphysical views to employ these techniques.
olavk 9y ago
Why do you need to believe in Thor (or whatever) in order to relax, talk to new people etc.?
- davebryand 9y ago
  You don't, but relaxing and talking are also not going to change your luck according to the ancient mystery traditions. Visualization, vibration, meditation are some keys, but most atheist-materialists view the belief that one can use those to impact reality the same way they view Thor--as hogwash. I personally believe all personifications of esoteric laws are man-made and should not be taken literally, so I'm not a big Thor guy, myself.

marcus_holmes 9y ago

Atheist-materialist here. Also meditator, and visualiser. It's just psychology. No need to invoke deities.

davebryand 9y ago
It's not about deities, it's about whether there are ways to use consciousness to manipulate the material universe. Are there laws of the universe that are knowable through experience and intuition that do not yet have a scientific explanation? The traditions I mention say "yes", I would imagine an atheist-materialist would say "no". I would have said "no" up until just a few months ago.
- maxpupmax 9y ago
  I think they all seem to have a pretty scientific explanation. Don't we see research on meditation pop up here almost every other week? I guess I'm pretty firmly in the atheist-materialist camp here. If you don't mind me asking, what happened to you to convince you otherwise?
  - davebryand 9y ago
    Thanks for asking. Here is a grab bag in rough order of events. (Spent years 1-20 as Catholic, and years 21-39 as an atheist) * Leaving my third "failed" startup, post YC. (For the record, my awesome co-founders sold to Cisco after I had left) * Working with a coach to find and clearly define my deepest values * Leaving San Francisco to align my life with those values * Deciding to search for the meaning of life * Truly realizing that the meaning of life isn't accumulation of money or stuff, and that my identity needn't be tied to those goals * Wrestling with my ego and deciding it does not deserve primacy * Donating many of my possessions * Fasting (many 2-3 day water fasts, 5 day as peak) * Reading 20-30 books on different spiritual traditions * Watching hundreds of hours of lectures on esoteric systems and spiritual traditions * Researching Tarot, Kaballah, Freemasonry, and other ancients systems of enlightenment * Studying Zen and Taoism * Learning about [Natural Law](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASUHN3gNxWo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASUHN3gNxWo) and allowing myself to honestly imagine if that is the way that the universe works * Experimenting with psychedelics * Practicing Transcendental Meditation twice daily * Getting out in nature and learning about plants * Explicitly working to balance my left and right brain by beginning to trust my intuition * Keeping a diary of synchronicities and searching for deeper connections than I previously allowed myself to believe could exist * Opening myself up to the possibility that there is more to the universe than that which has been explained by science * Learning the eight-circuit model of consciousness * Researching state of the art physics * Refactoring, uninstalling or rewriting the legacy operating system and long ago installed background processes that were my subconscious * Buying a house * Taking guitar lessons * Teaching myself to draw * Releasing fear and deciding to love everyone and everything * Adopting an amor fati attitude * Living for the present moment * Finding my higher self and living out of it on a daily basis
    - foldr 9y ago
      Holy shit. I'd rather be unenlightened than do all that.
      - davebryand 9y ago
        I would have thought so, too--it just sort of happened :)
    - wilsonnb 9y ago
      The Wikipedia page for the eight-circuit model of consciousness explained what it was pretty well but presented no evidence or arguments in favor of it. Do you know of any sources that that give such arguments? I am also curious as to how state of the art physics fits into the rest of your list. I assume it's related to the eight-circuit model and opening yourself up to the possibility that there is more to the universe than that which has been explained by science, due to it's placement in the list, but I would be interested in knowing how those concepts relate in your mind.
      - davebryand 9y ago
        Like most things that involve consciousness, the evidence is personal and experiential (Which is why people use the term psuedo-science for much of the information in this domain. Ironically, I now use that label as a signal for further research as opposed to something that I would reject out of hand). In my case, when I found the 8-circuit model, it was the best framework that I had found to explain the changes to my consciousness that I was experiencing. Like anything else that purports to describe reality, it's a model (the map), it's not truth (the territory). In terms of physics, you pretty much got it. Coming to understand that reality is much weirder and less understood than the Newtonian, mechanistic mental models that I grew up with was a revelation. I don't have actionable insights other than the relaxing of the assumption that there were authorities out there that had it all figured out.
        gowld 9y ago
        pseudo-science is deceptive promotion of falsehoods. Under-informed speculation is more "quasi-science"
Ngunyan 9y ago
Agnostic here. No deities were invoke by saying "almost every spiritual system". Spiritual ≠ Belief in deities. But then again, the post you were replying to is also mistaken that atheist-materialists have to change their metaphysical views to employ these techniques.

olavk 9y ago

Why do you need to believe in Thor (or whatever) in order to relax, talk to new people etc.?

davebryand 9y ago
You don't, but relaxing and talking are also not going to change your luck according to the ancient mystery traditions. Visualization, vibration, meditation are some keys, but most atheist-materialists view the belief that one can use those to impact reality the same way they view Thor--as hogwash. I personally believe all personifications of esoteric laws are man-made and should not be taken literally, so I'm not a big Thor guy, myself.