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Is it really hate though? Or just people accepting certain social standards and living their lives in accordance. Sure it's soul crushing for those who are opp

Is it really hate though? Or just people accepting certain social standards and living their lives in accordance. Sure it's soul crushing for those who are oppressed, but the oppressors would probably be well adjusted people in other societies.

voltooid 9y ago
From personal experience, I know that the people that may be described as the oppressors in Indian "urban" societies are often the ones that take on servile qualities when they try to assimilate in Western societies. Western society is often seen as the superior kind and the so-called oppressors of Indian society recognize a hierarchy in it, in which they are at a lower rung. It is hard to break out of that mindset. Of course, this is all based on personal experience. I wouldn't say this is the general rule.
ams6110 9y ago
It's called hate here, when for example a person regards homosexuality as immoral and opposes gay marriage. I've rarely heard anyone publicly claim that such people just have different social standards, or if they do, they are vilified for defending hate. Any time in history when one group has been oppressed by another, it's been considered normal by majority social standards of the time. When those standards change, discord and sometimes even war is the result.
- INvidiA 9y ago
  But that's the issue. If someone simply sees homosexuality as a something that isn't "approved by God" or something of that nature, and they in their minds are just going along with God's law, are they really hating something? I've heard many anti-gay marriage people say that they have no problem with gay people but that they just oppose gay marriage. Is that cognitive dissonance? Almost certainly, but is it hate? I don't think so. We throw around the word "hate" too much and doing so loses a lot of the nuance bound up in human attitudes.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - voltooid 9y ago
    Engaging in discriminatory, derogatory and demeaning behaviour actively. That comes from hate. The experiences of the person featured in the linked article, that could only come from hate. I think people that oppose gay marriage do so because of hate. But found a neat little loophole out of being called hateful by claiming that they have no problem with gay people. My reasoning is this: taking any kind of stance on any subject requires some kind of motivation. If you are moved to spend energy on something, you are motivated by some need to do so. If you oppose something that does not directly affect you, the reason is most probably hate.
    - Lambdanaut 9y ago
      As someone raised Southern Baptist but not currently identifying as so, I can attest that when I once peacefully opposed homosexuality, it was 100% out of a trust that God knew what he was doing and that I should trust him, despite my own personal ignorance. The belief that others can only oppose groups of people out of "hate" stems from a strong lack of empathy and understanding for people on the other side of the issue. > If you oppose something that does not directly affect you, the reason is most probably hate. Either that, or you are serving something percieved as greater than yourself.
      - mcguire 9y ago
        Yes and no. Sure, 'hate' is probably the wrong word, and may be counter productive in many cases. And you're right about the empathy; everyone likes to apply labels that mean they don't have to feel. On the other hand, accusing the people you oppose of being demonic Satan-spawn looking to corrupt our youth and destroy our lives and country, of being the baby-molesting other that causes nightmares, well, that probably isn't caused by an excess of good feeling.
      - danharaj 9y ago
        That reduces hatred to a never applicable triviality. Hatred at its core is causing others to suffer in service of the things that live in one's head. Emotions can be hateful, so can ideas.
- briandear 9y ago
  Some people might not want giraffes allowed in movie theaters, that doesn’t mean those people hate giraffes. Disagreeing with someone isn’t hate.
  - voltooid 9y ago
    I am wondering now if you read the linked article. There is logic in not wanting a giraffe in your field of vision at a movie hall. Actively discriminating against people because of arbitrary conditions of their birth is not that logical. Active discrimination in the life of "untouchables" means that they are viewed as dirty or lowly. I think it is a bit simplistic to think that it is ok to actively stick to demeaning and derogatory practices because it is societally accepted or because that's "just how things are".
  - nkrisc 9y ago
    Ok if we're using this bizarre analogy, it's as if you never even could tell if there was a giraffe in the movie theater or not, but if there was, you want it gone. When a gay couple gets married on the other side of the country, do you notice? Does your life change? If it's the mere idea of it you're opposed to, then that's bigotry, not some practical concern like a giraffe blocking your view of the screen.
    - INvidiA 9y ago
      If you believe God's law is paramount and have convinced yourself that God's law does not allow for gay marriage, then your opposition is not based on hate, but rather based on your conception of what's proper and what's not. This urge to thrust "hate" on people is dangerous because is dehumanizes them. If someone is hateful, then they are evil, and evil people deserve punishment. So the thinking goes, but it is regressive thinking. The disagreement about gay marriage stems for many from religious doctrine and what is traditional social practice, not hate.
      - jbros 9y ago
        I disagree. If anything, hate is a very human action. And the truly opressed know this. By not calling it out, you are actively complicit, giving more power to the oppressor. How many times does the story need to play out? Didn't we just see the #metoo thing play out? These women are victims of hate. Same story with LGBT and black. No one is dehumanizing anyone. The word is about human autonomy and dignity.
jbros 9y ago
This is a fundamental human algorithm that exists across all cultures and societies. This is exactly what hate is. And it should be pointed out by everyone. The oppressor only has power if others give it by being complicit.

voltooid 9y ago

From personal experience, I know that the people that may be described as the oppressors in Indian "urban" societies are often the ones that take on servile qualities when they try to assimilate in Western societies. Western society is often seen as the superior kind and the so-called oppressors of Indian society recognize a hierarchy in it, in which they are at a lower rung. It is hard to break out of that mindset. Of course, this is all based on personal experience. I wouldn't say this is the general rule.

ams6110 9y ago

It's called hate here, when for example a person regards homosexuality as immoral and opposes gay marriage. I've rarely heard anyone publicly claim that such people just have different social standards, or if they do, they are vilified for defending hate. Any time in history when one group has been oppressed by another, it's been considered normal by majority social standards of the time. When those standards change, discord and sometimes even war is the result.

INvidiA 9y ago
But that's the issue. If someone simply sees homosexuality as a something that isn't "approved by God" or something of that nature, and they in their minds are just going along with God's law, are they really hating something? I've heard many anti-gay marriage people say that they have no problem with gay people but that they just oppose gay marriage. Is that cognitive dissonance? Almost certainly, but is it hate? I don't think so. We throw around the word "hate" too much and doing so loses a lot of the nuance bound up in human attitudes.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- voltooid 9y ago
  Engaging in discriminatory, derogatory and demeaning behaviour actively. That comes from hate. The experiences of the person featured in the linked article, that could only come from hate. I think people that oppose gay marriage do so because of hate. But found a neat little loophole out of being called hateful by claiming that they have no problem with gay people. My reasoning is this: taking any kind of stance on any subject requires some kind of motivation. If you are moved to spend energy on something, you are motivated by some need to do so. If you oppose something that does not directly affect you, the reason is most probably hate.
  - Lambdanaut 9y ago
    As someone raised Southern Baptist but not currently identifying as so, I can attest that when I once peacefully opposed homosexuality, it was 100% out of a trust that God knew what he was doing and that I should trust him, despite my own personal ignorance. The belief that others can only oppose groups of people out of "hate" stems from a strong lack of empathy and understanding for people on the other side of the issue. > If you oppose something that does not directly affect you, the reason is most probably hate. Either that, or you are serving something percieved as greater than yourself.
    - mcguire 9y ago
      Yes and no. Sure, 'hate' is probably the wrong word, and may be counter productive in many cases. And you're right about the empathy; everyone likes to apply labels that mean they don't have to feel. On the other hand, accusing the people you oppose of being demonic Satan-spawn looking to corrupt our youth and destroy our lives and country, of being the baby-molesting other that causes nightmares, well, that probably isn't caused by an excess of good feeling.
    - danharaj 9y ago
      That reduces hatred to a never applicable triviality. Hatred at its core is causing others to suffer in service of the things that live in one's head. Emotions can be hateful, so can ideas.
briandear 9y ago
Some people might not want giraffes allowed in movie theaters, that doesn’t mean those people hate giraffes. Disagreeing with someone isn’t hate.
- voltooid 9y ago
  I am wondering now if you read the linked article. There is logic in not wanting a giraffe in your field of vision at a movie hall. Actively discriminating against people because of arbitrary conditions of their birth is not that logical. Active discrimination in the life of "untouchables" means that they are viewed as dirty or lowly. I think it is a bit simplistic to think that it is ok to actively stick to demeaning and derogatory practices because it is societally accepted or because that's "just how things are".
- nkrisc 9y ago
  Ok if we're using this bizarre analogy, it's as if you never even could tell if there was a giraffe in the movie theater or not, but if there was, you want it gone. When a gay couple gets married on the other side of the country, do you notice? Does your life change? If it's the mere idea of it you're opposed to, then that's bigotry, not some practical concern like a giraffe blocking your view of the screen.
  - INvidiA 9y ago
    If you believe God's law is paramount and have convinced yourself that God's law does not allow for gay marriage, then your opposition is not based on hate, but rather based on your conception of what's proper and what's not. This urge to thrust "hate" on people is dangerous because is dehumanizes them. If someone is hateful, then they are evil, and evil people deserve punishment. So the thinking goes, but it is regressive thinking. The disagreement about gay marriage stems for many from religious doctrine and what is traditional social practice, not hate.
    - jbros 9y ago
      I disagree. If anything, hate is a very human action. And the truly opressed know this. By not calling it out, you are actively complicit, giving more power to the oppressor. How many times does the story need to play out? Didn't we just see the #metoo thing play out? These women are victims of hate. Same story with LGBT and black. No one is dehumanizing anyone. The word is about human autonomy and dignity.

jbros 9y ago

This is a fundamental human algorithm that exists across all cultures and societies. This is exactly what hate is. And it should be pointed out by everyone. The oppressor only has power if others give it by being complicit.