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There is also vast amount of astroturfing by the USA & NATO Spy agencies, although I suspect it's a bit more risky for tumblr to report on those.

B1FF_PSUVM 9y ago
You mean the regular movie and TV programming?
eganist 9y ago
> There is also vast amount of astroturfing by the USA & NATO Spy agencies Source? Not saying you're wrong, just suggesting it flies in the face of this thread to make any assertion without a properly sourced citation.
- gandhium 9y ago
  I think his source is plain whataboutism.
  - StellarTabi 9y ago
    > People are called out on their "whataboutery" when they point out hypocrisy. For example, if a father tells his child not to smoke, and the child says "what about you? You smoke several packs a day!" The argument is that one shouldn't smoke, not that the one making the argument is exempt from that rule. So a "what about you" response does not address the argument, thus, is fallacious. However, it is a valid question that does warrant a response. Perhaps the father would respond "I am an idiot with no self-control." But if the father simply responded "that's 'whataboutery,'" it would be akin to the fallacy fallacy, where the implication is that because the response is a fallacy, then it must be incorrect, unreasonable, or undeserving of a response. This is a deflection and an argumentative cop out. Feel free to point out the whataboutery, but respond to the accusation and don't stop dialog because you have your opponent on a technicality. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/qa/Bo/LogicalFallacies/T6GFZjRy/Whataboutism https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/qa/Bo/LogicalFalla...
    - gandhium 9y ago
      In order to respond to accusation, I'd like to see any sources that support the accusation. But none were provided.
- baursak 9y ago
  https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-op... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/03/us-cuban-twitter-zunzuneo-stir-unrest https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/03/us-cuban-twitt...
  - conistonwater 9y ago
    Did you even read those articles? They do not show "vast amount of astroturfing by the USA & NATO Spy agencies", which was the claim upthread.
- fvdessen 9y ago
  What exactly do you think that the propaganda divisions of the various national spy agencies are doing ?

B1FF_PSUVM 9y ago

You mean the regular movie and TV programming?

eganist 9y ago

> There is also vast amount of astroturfing by the USA & NATO Spy agencies Source? Not saying you're wrong, just suggesting it flies in the face of this thread to make any assertion without a properly sourced citation.

gandhium 9y ago
I think his source is plain whataboutism.
- StellarTabi 9y ago
  > People are called out on their "whataboutery" when they point out hypocrisy. For example, if a father tells his child not to smoke, and the child says "what about you? You smoke several packs a day!" The argument is that one shouldn't smoke, not that the one making the argument is exempt from that rule. So a "what about you" response does not address the argument, thus, is fallacious. However, it is a valid question that does warrant a response. Perhaps the father would respond "I am an idiot with no self-control." But if the father simply responded "that's 'whataboutery,'" it would be akin to the fallacy fallacy, where the implication is that because the response is a fallacy, then it must be incorrect, unreasonable, or undeserving of a response. This is a deflection and an argumentative cop out. Feel free to point out the whataboutery, but respond to the accusation and don't stop dialog because you have your opponent on a technicality. https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/qa/Bo/LogicalFallacies/T6GFZjRy/Whataboutism https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/tools/qa/Bo/LogicalFalla...
  - gandhium 9y ago
    In order to respond to accusation, I'd like to see any sources that support the accusation. But none were provided.
baursak 9y ago
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-op... https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/03/us-cuban-twitter-zunzuneo-stir-unrest https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/03/us-cuban-twitt...
- conistonwater 9y ago
  Did you even read those articles? They do not show "vast amount of astroturfing by the USA & NATO Spy agencies", which was the claim upthread.
fvdessen 9y ago
What exactly do you think that the propaganda divisions of the various national spy agencies are doing ?