5 ms·

Are you genuinely asking a question you would like to know the truthful answer to, or are you just interested in confirming the strong preexisting bias on displ

Are you genuinely asking a question you would like to know the truthful answer to, or are you just interested in confirming the strong preexisting bias on display in each of your comments on this story ? You asked about the "average employee" having access to user data, and the answer is unequivocally "no", with both technical and disciplinary safeguards. There are only a few roles (moderation) who can access the relevant tools, and while engineers may technically have programmatic access (how would you expect things to work if nobody did ?), this is thoroughly logged and you'd better have an ironclad justification not to get fired on the spot.

mehrdadn 9y ago
No, I'm interested in knowing the truthful answer. It's just that I've received plenty of seemingly truthful responses (both here and elsewhere, e.g. [1]) that seem quite consistent with the notion that an average-employee(-turned-malicious) would be capable of accessing user data, punishments and all notwithstanding. > You asked about the "average employee" having access to user data, and the answer is unequivocally "no", with both technical and disciplinary safeguards. (a) How do you know, and (b) so what is your explanation of stories like [1]? They're just hoaxes? > and while engineers may technically have programmatic access (how would you expect things to work if nobody did ?) Again you are wording this in quite a vague, lawyer-y manner, which again raises my eyebrows. "May" as in "might", or as in "do"? And "engineers" as in what fraction of them? There is a lot of wiggle room between "nobody" and "all engineers". It's quite strange that I can't get a straightforward, crystal-clear denial to a non-weasel-worded claim from you who seem to be confidently contesting what I'm saying. Please don't keep muddying the waters. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16675664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16675664
- evgen 9y ago
  Regarding your question about a dev setting up a test server and accessing live data, that hole has been closed for years. There is some data that an average employee just cannot get to. For some data a dev can access it but the pattern of access and amount of data accessed will be audited and anomalies will raise an alarm. As for why no one is giving you a clear answer it is because there is no reason for anyone to tell some random person deep details about security policy and procedure. The people building the internal controls and defenses are smarter than you, they know what needs to be protected and are rather devious about thinking up attack scenarios and possible paths of compromise, and eventually get tired of repeating the same answers. Want to know more? Too bad.
  - mehrdadn 9y ago
    > As for why no one is giving you a clear answer it is because there is no reason for anyone to tell some random person deep details about security policy and procedure. Where did I ask for "deep details about security policy and procedure"? > Want to know more? Too bad. No, but thanks. > There is some data that an average employee just cannot get to. "Some data" means nothing. I'm sure this is true in many, many companies, ranging from the most competent to the most incompetent. > For some data a dev can access it but the pattern of access and amount of data accessed will be audited and anomalies will raise an alarm. This is yet again consistent with what I've said.
    - stryk 9y ago
      I think what you're asking for here you're never going to get. Nobody who works there currently will tell you because they'd get fired (and everyone has bills to pay). People who worked there in the past aren't going to tell you because #1) it's bad practice/bad op-sec/it's uncouth/whatever, #2) if they did it would negatively impact their future prospects and reputation. Nobody has any incentive to hand out definitive numbers or break it down into "X-dev-team #1 has access to X, Y, and Z" At the end of the day, the data is there - they have it. Possession is arguably MORE than 9/10 of the law in this situation. They can access it whenever they want -- trivially if they are rogue or have no concern for keeping their job. but this is true of just about any huge company that employs a lot of people-- but they're not going to say they can. Why would they?
      - mehrdadn 9y ago
        > Nobody has any incentive to hand out definitive numbers or break it down into "X-dev-team #1 has access to X, Y, and Z" For goodness's sake, please stop these straw-man arguments. I said this above once, but it seems I have to say it again: nobody ever asked for that level of detail. People have been struggling with far more basic issues. No current or ex-employee or intern has even come along to try to say something simple like "as far as I know, the average Facebook intern simply cannot access private user data regardless of any business reasons"; indeed, we've gotten anecdotes that that the opposite has actually happened. How you suddenly deduce that I'm looking for specific descriptions of what teams can access what data is just beyond me.

mehrdadn 9y ago

No, I'm interested in knowing the truthful answer. It's just that I've received plenty of seemingly truthful responses (both here and elsewhere, e.g. [1]) that seem quite consistent with the notion that an average-employee(-turned-malicious) would be capable of accessing user data, punishments and all notwithstanding. > You asked about the "average employee" having access to user data, and the answer is unequivocally "no", with both technical and disciplinary safeguards. (a) How do you know, and (b) so what is your explanation of stories like [1]? They're just hoaxes? > and while engineers may technically have programmatic access (how would you expect things to work if nobody did ?) Again you are wording this in quite a vague, lawyer-y manner, which again raises my eyebrows. "May" as in "might", or as in "do"? And "engineers" as in what fraction of them? There is a lot of wiggle room between "nobody" and "all engineers". It's quite strange that I can't get a straightforward, crystal-clear denial to a non-weasel-worded claim from you who seem to be confidently contesting what I'm saying. Please don't keep muddying the waters. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16675664 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16675664

evgen 9y ago
Regarding your question about a dev setting up a test server and accessing live data, that hole has been closed for years. There is some data that an average employee just cannot get to. For some data a dev can access it but the pattern of access and amount of data accessed will be audited and anomalies will raise an alarm. As for why no one is giving you a clear answer it is because there is no reason for anyone to tell some random person deep details about security policy and procedure. The people building the internal controls and defenses are smarter than you, they know what needs to be protected and are rather devious about thinking up attack scenarios and possible paths of compromise, and eventually get tired of repeating the same answers. Want to know more? Too bad.
- mehrdadn 9y ago
  > As for why no one is giving you a clear answer it is because there is no reason for anyone to tell some random person deep details about security policy and procedure. Where did I ask for "deep details about security policy and procedure"? > Want to know more? Too bad. No, but thanks. > There is some data that an average employee just cannot get to. "Some data" means nothing. I'm sure this is true in many, many companies, ranging from the most competent to the most incompetent. > For some data a dev can access it but the pattern of access and amount of data accessed will be audited and anomalies will raise an alarm. This is yet again consistent with what I've said.
  - stryk 9y ago
    I think what you're asking for here you're never going to get. Nobody who works there currently will tell you because they'd get fired (and everyone has bills to pay). People who worked there in the past aren't going to tell you because #1) it's bad practice/bad op-sec/it's uncouth/whatever, #2) if they did it would negatively impact their future prospects and reputation. Nobody has any incentive to hand out definitive numbers or break it down into "X-dev-team #1 has access to X, Y, and Z" At the end of the day, the data is there - they have it. Possession is arguably MORE than 9/10 of the law in this situation. They can access it whenever they want -- trivially if they are rogue or have no concern for keeping their job. but this is true of just about any huge company that employs a lot of people-- but they're not going to say they can. Why would they?
    - mehrdadn 9y ago
      > Nobody has any incentive to hand out definitive numbers or break it down into "X-dev-team #1 has access to X, Y, and Z" For goodness's sake, please stop these straw-man arguments. I said this above once, but it seems I have to say it again: nobody ever asked for that level of detail. People have been struggling with far more basic issues. No current or ex-employee or intern has even come along to try to say something simple like "as far as I know, the average Facebook intern simply cannot access private user data regardless of any business reasons"; indeed, we've gotten anecdotes that that the opposite has actually happened. How you suddenly deduce that I'm looking for specific descriptions of what teams can access what data is just beyond me.