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> The ISPs want a shot at making money off you, too - Do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data? Do you think that is the place of an ISP

> The ISPs want a shot at making money off you, too - Do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data? Do you think that is the place of an ISP? - Does it bother you you are PAYING your ISP and they are reselling your data as well? - Do you trust Comcast and Verizon and like that you are paying them to sell your data when you just want to use them to get online and are ok with this? I don't think anyone argues Google has power but they aren't your 'gateway' to the internet that you pay for privacy. Your argument is basically that you think Google has overreach so you want ISPs to take that from them or also do that? I am against Google Fiber ISP having access that ISPs just won with bribery over innovation/product offerings that people want. If Facebook had an ISP I wouldn't want them doing it either via the ISP. > What I'm curious about is, why is the EFF so upset about what ISPs do, but not upset about what Google does, when Google's actions are literally affecting an entire industry and most of the world, and not just its own customers? Products built on top of the internet are way different than products that are the base of the network. You should not be tracked at the network/gateway level ever. If ISPs 'want a shot at making money off you' then let them build a service such as a search engine, social network or maybe like Comcast is doing with Hulu. Don't give up your rights at the gateway of the web just because you have a grudge or bias against Google. > Google has been reshaping the entire internet and web just to maximize the way they can profit off my personal information. I don't see the ISPs doing that. Also your points about Google are rich considering you have a @gmail account in your HN profile. If they are so overpowering why do you use them and not your ISPs email system? Since you have no issue with ISPs selling data that you are paying them to keep private, you would be fine with Google Fiber ISP also doing that? Careful what you wish for and freedoms you give up due to bias ...

deleted 9y ago
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peterwwillis 9y ago
Your basic complaint is that it isn't fair that you can't opt out of your ISP pilfering your traffic. But 1) you can use https-only services, 2) you can use a vpn, and 3) you can use a different ISP. You obviously have alternatives, so there's no reason I can see that your ISP being unfair. I care a teeny bit about privacy, but I care a whole lot more about anticompetitive monopolistic practices. IMO, ISPs are absolutely guilty of those - but my point is, so is Google. I care when somebody changes the design of the entire web for their company's sole profit. That's why I'm pointing out Google's practices, and how I think they're doing much worse things than ISPs. If you don't care about anticompetitive monopolistic practices, and only care about privacy, then I can see how you might not mind what Google is doing. But soon, Google will be doing to you what they're making impossible for the ISP to do.
- drawkbox 9y ago
  Dodging questions like these to stay focused on Google only tells great amounts about bias. - Do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data? Do you think that is the place of an ISP? - Does it bother you you are PAYING your ISP and they are reselling your data as well? - Do you trust Comcast and Verizon and like that you are paying them to sell your data when you just want to use them to get online and are ok with this? - Since you have no issue with ISPs selling data that you are paying them to keep private, you would be fine with Google Fiber ISP also doing that? I am against Google Fiber ISP having access that ISPs just won with bribery over innovation/product offerings that people want. This is about the level of privacy and access ISPs should have not about Google. - The ISPs already charge too much and little of it is going towards innovations/network advancement, instead they want to be content creators and ad platforms instead of charging more to get to gigabit and beyond. ISPs need to get back to innovating on providing better/faster internet service, what they are are network providers. - ISPs should not be involved in content/ads/selling private data as that leads to bias and throttling, we need to have a separation of power from ISPs, the network gateway to the internet, and content creators on top of the internet. When is it a good idea to have content creators own the network outright? All that leads to is bias, preferential treatment and monopolies (furthering them). We have made immense mistakes in 2017 allowing ISPs to sell your private data, remove privacy protections at the network level AND the removal of net neutrality. Net neutrality makes the network provider neutral, simple as that. ISPs you pay to get access to the network which is a utility today and to keep your data private, not sell it.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

peterwwillis 9y ago

Your basic complaint is that it isn't fair that you can't opt out of your ISP pilfering your traffic. But 1) you can use https-only services, 2) you can use a vpn, and 3) you can use a different ISP. You obviously have alternatives, so there's no reason I can see that your ISP being unfair. I care a teeny bit about privacy, but I care a whole lot more about anticompetitive monopolistic practices. IMO, ISPs are absolutely guilty of those - but my point is, so is Google. I care when somebody changes the design of the entire web for their company's sole profit. That's why I'm pointing out Google's practices, and how I think they're doing much worse things than ISPs. If you don't care about anticompetitive monopolistic practices, and only care about privacy, then I can see how you might not mind what Google is doing. But soon, Google will be doing to you what they're making impossible for the ISP to do.

drawkbox 9y ago
Dodging questions like these to stay focused on Google only tells great amounts about bias. - Do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data? Do you think that is the place of an ISP? - Does it bother you you are PAYING your ISP and they are reselling your data as well? - Do you trust Comcast and Verizon and like that you are paying them to sell your data when you just want to use them to get online and are ok with this? - Since you have no issue with ISPs selling data that you are paying them to keep private, you would be fine with Google Fiber ISP also doing that? I am against Google Fiber ISP having access that ISPs just won with bribery over innovation/product offerings that people want. This is about the level of privacy and access ISPs should have not about Google. - The ISPs already charge too much and little of it is going towards innovations/network advancement, instead they want to be content creators and ad platforms instead of charging more to get to gigabit and beyond. ISPs need to get back to innovating on providing better/faster internet service, what they are are network providers. - ISPs should not be involved in content/ads/selling private data as that leads to bias and throttling, we need to have a separation of power from ISPs, the network gateway to the internet, and content creators on top of the internet. When is it a good idea to have content creators own the network outright? All that leads to is bias, preferential treatment and monopolies (furthering them). We have made immense mistakes in 2017 allowing ISPs to sell your private data, remove privacy protections at the network level AND the removal of net neutrality. Net neutrality makes the network provider neutral, simple as that. ISPs you pay to get access to the network which is a utility today and to keep your data private, not sell it.