6 ms·

On Communities and Content

97 points by destraynor 16y ago

warwick 16y ago
The comment about empty input boxes brought forth a possible UI idea. What would happen if you showed users a profile page full of information taken from other random users and asked them to correct it?
- Raphael 16y ago
  Erroneous profile data.
- brianbreslin 16y ago
  you mean assume what they would fill in? most users are lazy. always assume they are willing to put in the minimal amount of effort to get past your friction points (signup)
  - warwick 16y ago
    The initial thought is to see if users are more likely to correct profile fields from incorrect values than they are to just leave a field empty. To avoid incorrect profile data, it might be implemented so that if a field is never given focus, it would be treated as blank.
- dimarco 16y ago
  It would probably be pretty confusing, especially considering most people don't read much text on the page(like the text that might say "Correct this...")
cinimod 16y ago
That article totally describe me. Really realist and interesting read. However, it's kind of normal to have no content if the goal of the site is to let you share things with your friends.
- SoftwareMaven 16y ago
  But that will only work if you (creator of the site) have a direct connection with the group of friends.
JacobAldridge 16y ago
I find myself torn around the value of content in web businesses moving forward. On the one hand, there's the observations put forward (most strongly, in my encounters, by Scott Adams on his dilbert blog) that content is essentially in a race towards free. The value in this situation is those companies that can sort, aggregate, or point you in the right content direction (HN fits this group; so does Google). But then there's the fact, and this article makes the point, that without content there's no value. Whether user-generated, expert-driven or otherwise, we do need some content, and no doubt some content is far more valuable than others. My strength is undoubtedly in created meaningful content. Does that make me valuable, with the right connections, or a sucker with skills that are soon to be comparable to blacksmithing in NYC or making cars in Detroit?
- robryan 16y ago
  It is a big problem, there needs to be content created but in the majority of cases this content can't be produced in an economical fashion, so it's down to people that love what they do, those using it to cross promote something else and the second rate cheap content farms.
cullenking 16y ago
Not all user generated content need be treated the same. As the article points out, a very small portion of consumers on a particular site turn around and create their own content. But, I think this mostly applies to general interest content sites. What if your site provides content as a result of providing a useful, provocative tool? We have about 21k users on ridewithgps.com. The focal point of the site is the mapping functionalities for planning and logging bike rides. Users create this content by either drawing a prospective ride on a map, or, by uploading a log file from a trip they took. There are very few accounts that have no routes or recorded activities on them, because the site exists to provide utility to a user. With 134,000 maps, that's 6.4 maps per user. By creating an account, users are compelled to start creating maps because it is directly useful to them to do so! However, users can also add less important content: a mini-profile for their bike, photos, comments etc. The amount of this less utilitarian content that users create is significantly smaller. Photos, for example, are 0.3 per user. Comments are 0.1 per user. What does this mean? Make sure your site provides a strong utilitarian aspect for your users! Provide them with value, not just another place register and store generic content.
- akgerber 16y ago
  And these guys had well-established competitors! But one competitor was a lot less functional, and another had a business model of "provide a free version with incredibly aggravating ads so that users buy a premium version." Instead I immediately moved to RideWithGPS when I heard about it & tell everyone else about it. But I don't think they're making money off of me. I should probably donate now that I have a real job, since I'm a pretty heavy user. Another cool way they could make money off of me would be selling ads tailored to the kind of riding I do and the kind of bikes I ride, since I've given them that information. That'd actually be pretty cool.
  - cullenking 16y ago
    We are exploring non-ad based revenue models primarily, but, are open to tastefully done ads like you have described. We have plans on greatly enhancing our gear section (can you tell it hasn't been touched in two years?) to encourage more detailed inputs. This will let us do more relevant targeting. If we do ads, I want to attempt to only show ads that are beneficial to a user. Since we are location based, that means maybe only allowing local ads for users, or maybe any ad as long as it is a sweet deal. Users might not be turned off on ads if they are for 25% off stuff the want anyway. As far as donating, I am working out how I want to handle early donors considering we are nearing the launch of paid accounts. We will be treating our early donors well, they will receive much more than they might otherwise for a normal paid account, but we haven't put any actual "policies" in place. I am constantly surprised by the levels of donations. We received a $200 donation at the end of last week from a single user! The average has been around $22.50 - I have intended on writing a blog piece on it, but haven't managed yet :)
Qz 16y ago
This is well written, and the biggest takeaway is probably the content precedes design line, which I think is pretty key. On a side note, noticing that this is .ie, I can't help but try to read the article in my head with an Irish accent. But I've been watching a TV show set in Scotland recently (The Book Group, on Hulu), so I'm pretty sure I'm actually reading it in some bastardized Irish/Scottish accent that would surely get me killed in either place.
- earnubs 16y ago
  Accents in some parts of Scotland are similar to some accents in Northern Ireland and vice versa, there's a lot of mixing. But a Glaswegian accent (Book Group) is nothing like a Dublin accent (Contrast).
- destraynor 16y ago
  Thanks for your kind words. The content precedes design point is borrowed from Zeldman. As earnubs pointed out, my accent is Dublin, so if you're thinking scottish you're way off :) Maybe we should press on with the Contrast podcast :)
  - Qz 16y ago
    Oh man I would love a podcast. And I was only thinking scottish because of the TV show I was watching...
danielrhodes 16y ago
The only way to start a legit social network is doing so among a small number of people first and once you get some network effects in that group slowly expand out. Social networks aren't usually very good at bringing random people together, they are good at facilitating relationships that already exist.
Volscio 16y ago
Do you think there are more sites that say they are "like Facebook, but..." or more blog posts saying that "your site that's like Facebook, but... won't work?" [edit: wasn't clear]
danielsiders 16y ago
You wouldn't believe the number of calls I got when I worked at an agency every day asking us to build facebook, but better in some tiny way. For free. The really generous prospective clients would offer us a share of the potential, expectedly limitless, profits. Critical mass of users is hard enough when launching real tools, social networks are the one in a million perfectly timed shots and follow up with great response to users' needs. You can't manufacture that kind of success, just hope to ride the wave well if and when it comes.
- prawn 16y ago
  Oblig: http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
joshuacc 16y ago
You know what they call a content driven site without any good content? A load of bollox. This.

97 points by destraynor 16y ago

The comment about empty input boxes brought forth a possible UI idea. What would happen if you showed users a profile page full of information taken from other random users and asked them to correct it?

Raphael 16y ago
Erroneous profile data.
brianbreslin 16y ago
you mean assume what they would fill in? most users are lazy. always assume they are willing to put in the minimal amount of effort to get past your friction points (signup)
- warwick 16y ago
  The initial thought is to see if users are more likely to correct profile fields from incorrect values than they are to just leave a field empty. To avoid incorrect profile data, it might be implemented so that if a field is never given focus, it would be treated as blank.
dimarco 16y ago
It would probably be pretty confusing, especially considering most people don't read much text on the page(like the text that might say "Correct this...")

cinimod 16y ago

That article totally describe me. Really realist and interesting read. However, it's kind of normal to have no content if the goal of the site is to let you share things with your friends.

SoftwareMaven 16y ago
But that will only work if you (creator of the site) have a direct connection with the group of friends.

JacobAldridge 16y ago

I find myself torn around the value of content in web businesses moving forward. On the one hand, there's the observations put forward (most strongly, in my encounters, by Scott Adams on his dilbert blog) that content is essentially in a race towards free. The value in this situation is those companies that can sort, aggregate, or point you in the right content direction (HN fits this group; so does Google). But then there's the fact, and this article makes the point, that without content there's no value. Whether user-generated, expert-driven or otherwise, we do need some content, and no doubt some content is far more valuable than others. My strength is undoubtedly in created meaningful content. Does that make me valuable, with the right connections, or a sucker with skills that are soon to be comparable to blacksmithing in NYC or making cars in Detroit?

robryan 16y ago
It is a big problem, there needs to be content created but in the majority of cases this content can't be produced in an economical fashion, so it's down to people that love what they do, those using it to cross promote something else and the second rate cheap content farms.

cullenking 16y ago

Not all user generated content need be treated the same. As the article points out, a very small portion of consumers on a particular site turn around and create their own content. But, I think this mostly applies to general interest content sites. What if your site provides content as a result of providing a useful, provocative tool? We have about 21k users on ridewithgps.com. The focal point of the site is the mapping functionalities for planning and logging bike rides. Users create this content by either drawing a prospective ride on a map, or, by uploading a log file from a trip they took. There are very few accounts that have no routes or recorded activities on them, because the site exists to provide utility to a user. With 134,000 maps, that's 6.4 maps per user. By creating an account, users are compelled to start creating maps because it is directly useful to them to do so! However, users can also add less important content: a mini-profile for their bike, photos, comments etc. The amount of this less utilitarian content that users create is significantly smaller. Photos, for example, are 0.3 per user. Comments are 0.1 per user. What does this mean? Make sure your site provides a strong utilitarian aspect for your users! Provide them with value, not just another place register and store generic content.

akgerber 16y ago
And these guys had well-established competitors! But one competitor was a lot less functional, and another had a business model of "provide a free version with incredibly aggravating ads so that users buy a premium version." Instead I immediately moved to RideWithGPS when I heard about it & tell everyone else about it. But I don't think they're making money off of me. I should probably donate now that I have a real job, since I'm a pretty heavy user. Another cool way they could make money off of me would be selling ads tailored to the kind of riding I do and the kind of bikes I ride, since I've given them that information. That'd actually be pretty cool.
- cullenking 16y ago
  We are exploring non-ad based revenue models primarily, but, are open to tastefully done ads like you have described. We have plans on greatly enhancing our gear section (can you tell it hasn't been touched in two years?) to encourage more detailed inputs. This will let us do more relevant targeting. If we do ads, I want to attempt to only show ads that are beneficial to a user. Since we are location based, that means maybe only allowing local ads for users, or maybe any ad as long as it is a sweet deal. Users might not be turned off on ads if they are for 25% off stuff the want anyway. As far as donating, I am working out how I want to handle early donors considering we are nearing the launch of paid accounts. We will be treating our early donors well, they will receive much more than they might otherwise for a normal paid account, but we haven't put any actual "policies" in place. I am constantly surprised by the levels of donations. We received a $200 donation at the end of last week from a single user! The average has been around $22.50 - I have intended on writing a blog piece on it, but haven't managed yet :)

Qz 16y ago

This is well written, and the biggest takeaway is probably the content precedes design line, which I think is pretty key. On a side note, noticing that this is .ie, I can't help but try to read the article in my head with an Irish accent. But I've been watching a TV show set in Scotland recently (The Book Group, on Hulu), so I'm pretty sure I'm actually reading it in some bastardized Irish/Scottish accent that would surely get me killed in either place.

earnubs 16y ago
Accents in some parts of Scotland are similar to some accents in Northern Ireland and vice versa, there's a lot of mixing. But a Glaswegian accent (Book Group) is nothing like a Dublin accent (Contrast).
destraynor 16y ago
Thanks for your kind words. The content precedes design point is borrowed from Zeldman. As earnubs pointed out, my accent is Dublin, so if you're thinking scottish you're way off :) Maybe we should press on with the Contrast podcast :)
- Qz 16y ago
  Oh man I would love a podcast. And I was only thinking scottish because of the TV show I was watching...

danielrhodes 16y ago

The only way to start a legit social network is doing so among a small number of people first and once you get some network effects in that group slowly expand out. Social networks aren't usually very good at bringing random people together, they are good at facilitating relationships that already exist.

Volscio 16y ago

Do you think there are more sites that say they are "like Facebook, but..." or more blog posts saying that "your site that's like Facebook, but... won't work?" [edit: wasn't clear]

danielsiders 16y ago

You wouldn't believe the number of calls I got when I worked at an agency every day asking us to build facebook, but better in some tiny way. For free. The really generous prospective clients would offer us a share of the potential, expectedly limitless, profits. Critical mass of users is hard enough when launching real tools, social networks are the one in a million perfectly timed shots and follow up with great response to users' needs. You can't manufacture that kind of success, just hope to ride the wave well if and when it comes.

prawn 16y ago
Oblig: http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html http://www.27bslash6.com/p2p2.html

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

joshuacc 16y ago

You know what they call a content driven site without any good content? A load of bollox. This.