6 ms·

I'm actually surprised at how much more I liked the last gen Macbook Pro than the new Touch Bar one. Almost everything from the larger touch pad to the new keyb

by bane 9y ago

I'm actually surprised at how much more I liked the last gen Macbook Pro than the new Touch Bar one. Almost everything from the larger touch pad to the new keyboard just feels worse and harder to use. The Touch Bar is useless garbage and all my worries about dongleopolis becoming my life have become true. Just yesterday I had to find adapters for a thumb drive and an HDMI cable -- which was absolutely infuriating. I used to bring my rMBP everywhere with me for photography because I could easily just jam the SDcard in and transfer all my photos. Nope, need an adapter now. Typing physically hurts on the new ultrashort throw keys. The trackpad has moments where it just doesn't seem to want to work correctly for certain complex movements like drag and drop. I'm months in with this stupid thing and I still can't get it to reliable draw a box around a bunch of icons and drag and drop. Plus the fake click for presses feels just enough disconnected to make the whole process terrible. I also get all kinds of external monitor flickering and resyncing issues, and I'm 3 different dongles in trying to get that stop. If I could have kept my old rMBP for another lease period (they're work issued) I would have. I really really actively dislike this thing.

gumby 9y ago
> The Touch Bar is useless garbage I hate it too but you and I are not the customers for it: it's people who look down at the keyboard when they type (so looking down to see what the buttons do is not an inconvenience). Those folks seem to love it, and it helps upgrade people to MBPs. I think they were hoping developers would embrace it so that it would sell more machines. Hah. (Honestly apart from booting into BIOS I doubt I've ever pressed an "Fn" key in my life (Emacs, baby!) so would be fine with a piece of tape over it to suppress spurious finger detection -- hmm, I should try this. The thumbpress is nice but now they have the watch-unlocking working pretty reliably it doesn't matter as much to me).
- bane 9y ago
  I actually think it's there literally for the Apple store experience. It seems cool and responsive in the store and it it's only after some time with it you realize what a gimmick it is.
  - gumby 9y ago
    FWIW my kid, a number crunching touch typist, thought it was a gimmick and recently told me that he was "forced to admit I really like it". So maybe Apple knew what they were doing. Maybe.
jeroen 9y ago
I'm still using my 17" MBPs. The prospect of replacing them with newer models becomes less appealing with each new generation.
nextos 9y ago
I wish Mac Pro range focused more on upgradeability, at least on desktop models, and less on thinness. I don't use Macs anymore, but I still admire old Mac Pros. Good looking and incredibly functional.
- lsc 9y ago
  I bought my first apple product (an iphone 5) a few years back, and have been slowly buying more and more into their ecosystem, which sounds like the opposite of what you did. I come from old ThinkPad laptops; I've been using thinkpads with the trackpoint for two decades now, and with lenovo now changing the keyboard, I bought a macbook maybe a year ago. Interestingly, I got the iphone 5 because servicing anything else(beyond swapping batteries) was really difficult due to a lack of parts and information. the iphone is actually far more repairable than other cellphones. > I wish Mac Pro range focused more on upgradeability, at least on desktop models, and less on thinness. Right now? I think the mac pro desktop is mostly dead. Apple claims they will build another, but... we will see. The specs on the current mac pro are thoroughly obsolete. I do agree that if you want me to buy an expensive desktop, you put it in a case and you let me upgrade it. I mean, I have a mac mini, too... but that is a lot cheaper, so I'll take some compromises. Laptops, on the other hand? I understand there is a tradeoff between thinness, reliability, and upgradability. Every socketed part takes up more space, and a socketed joint is less reliable than a soldered joint. That said, I think that the 'all usb-C' jump was a bad choice, and even if you agree with that vision, it was too soon; even today, I can't find a usb-C to wired ethernet adapter. I also think the keyboards might be a mistake. I bought a macbook about a year ago, with the short throw keys. They were interesting and crisp, and generally okay in an interesting sort of way... but over time, they've been getting clogged up, and unlike a laptop I can take apart (I usually roll with older ThinkPads) I don't see any way to clean out this keyboard. I guess the whole idea behind a mac product is that you bring it in to be serviced, and I did buy the extended warranty, so perhaps I just need to take the thing into the service center.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >That said, I think that the 'all usb-C' jump was a bad choice, and even if you agree with that vision, it was too soon; even today, I can't find a usb-C to wired ethernet adapter. Where, in rural Freedonia? https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/product/HJKF2ZM/A/belkin-usb-c-to-gigabit-ethernet-adapter https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/product/HJKF2ZM/A/belkin-usb-c... http://www.belkin.com/sg/p/P-F2CU040/ http://www.belkin.com/sg/p/P-F2CU040/ https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Aluminum-1-Gigabit-Compatible-ChromeBook/dp/B00ZZ6NW5E https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Aluminum-1-Gigabit-Compatible-C... https://www.amazon.com/Kanex-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter-Inches/dp/B00VBNSXKO https://www.amazon.com/Kanex-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter-Inches... (And another 20 chinese models -- some for $10 or so) http://simya.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008829861312/pdtl/USB-C-hub/1153195364/USB-Type-C-to-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter.htm http://simya.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008829861312...
greydius 9y ago
> The Touch Bar is useless garbage I think they probably realized this and then decided to put the escape key there to justify its existence.
coldtea 9y ago
>the new keyboard just feels worse and harder to use I agree with this. The problem I'd want them to solve with the keyboard is better tactical feedback and no dust/water getting inside -- not "smaller height", which they seem to have focused on. >The Touch Bar is useless garbage I'd settle for either a physical Escape key in the same position as it was + touch bar, or for a wholly physical set of keys with changeable display (like the Optimus keyboard). >and all my worries about dongleopolis becoming my life have become true. Just yesterday I had to find adapters for a thumb drive and an HDMI cable -- which was absolutely infuriating The small USB+HDMI+USB-C adapter would cater to all of those, and is pretty much required for any MBP USB-C user: https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter?afid=p238%7CsBDKrr38B-dc_mtid_18707vxu38484_pcrid_146935977481_&cid=aos-sg-kwgo-pla-btb-product-MJ1K2AM/A https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digita... Or you could go my route, and buy USB-C to X cables for HDMI, lighting, USB micro-B etc. No adapters required then -- you, just replace the existing cables on your peripherals with all USB-C ones (that would be ~$100, but for a $2k laptop, that's not much additional cost).
- bane 9y ago
  Thanks for the link. And you're right, it seems so essential that those ports feel like they should just be on the device. > I'd settle for either a physical Escape key in the same position as it was + touch bar, or for a wholly physical set of keys with changeable display (like the Optimus keyboard). I don't VIM all that much, so the ESC key works fine for me when I need it. It's just that I pretty much ignore the touchbar altogether and haven't found any compelling app or reason to use it. So it just sits there, draining power and costing money. The trackpad is so large now that I wish that it had been replaced by a more general purpose touchscreen with app specific actions and status directly indicated on it (e.g. "ready to drag", video scrubber + volume control, move the finder there, etc.). It would make the use-cases for the trackpad more discoverable instead of remembering half a dozen gestures, and move space steal gui controls away from apps and down by your hands. In fact, that entire huge space beneath the keyboard should just be a giant touch screen.
kiksy 9y ago
The trackpad has moments where it just doesn't seem to want to work correctly for certain complex movements like drag and drop. I'm months in with this stupid thing and I still can't get it to reliable draw a box around a bunch of icons and drag and drop. Glad this isn't just me! It seems next to impossible now to drag and drop one handed. I'm sure there is a knack to it, but I can't figure it out.

by bane 9y ago

gumby 9y ago

> The Touch Bar is useless garbage I hate it too but you and I are not the customers for it: it's people who look down at the keyboard when they type (so looking down to see what the buttons do is not an inconvenience). Those folks seem to love it, and it helps upgrade people to MBPs. I think they were hoping developers would embrace it so that it would sell more machines. Hah. (Honestly apart from booting into BIOS I doubt I've ever pressed an "Fn" key in my life (Emacs, baby!) so would be fine with a piece of tape over it to suppress spurious finger detection -- hmm, I should try this. The thumbpress is nice but now they have the watch-unlocking working pretty reliably it doesn't matter as much to me).

bane 9y ago
I actually think it's there literally for the Apple store experience. It seems cool and responsive in the store and it it's only after some time with it you realize what a gimmick it is.
- gumby 9y ago
  FWIW my kid, a number crunching touch typist, thought it was a gimmick and recently told me that he was "forced to admit I really like it". So maybe Apple knew what they were doing. Maybe.

jeroen 9y ago

I'm still using my 17" MBPs. The prospect of replacing them with newer models becomes less appealing with each new generation.

nextos 9y ago

I wish Mac Pro range focused more on upgradeability, at least on desktop models, and less on thinness. I don't use Macs anymore, but I still admire old Mac Pros. Good looking and incredibly functional.

lsc 9y ago
I bought my first apple product (an iphone 5) a few years back, and have been slowly buying more and more into their ecosystem, which sounds like the opposite of what you did. I come from old ThinkPad laptops; I've been using thinkpads with the trackpoint for two decades now, and with lenovo now changing the keyboard, I bought a macbook maybe a year ago. Interestingly, I got the iphone 5 because servicing anything else(beyond swapping batteries) was really difficult due to a lack of parts and information. the iphone is actually far more repairable than other cellphones. > I wish Mac Pro range focused more on upgradeability, at least on desktop models, and less on thinness. Right now? I think the mac pro desktop is mostly dead. Apple claims they will build another, but... we will see. The specs on the current mac pro are thoroughly obsolete. I do agree that if you want me to buy an expensive desktop, you put it in a case and you let me upgrade it. I mean, I have a mac mini, too... but that is a lot cheaper, so I'll take some compromises. Laptops, on the other hand? I understand there is a tradeoff between thinness, reliability, and upgradability. Every socketed part takes up more space, and a socketed joint is less reliable than a soldered joint. That said, I think that the 'all usb-C' jump was a bad choice, and even if you agree with that vision, it was too soon; even today, I can't find a usb-C to wired ethernet adapter. I also think the keyboards might be a mistake. I bought a macbook about a year ago, with the short throw keys. They were interesting and crisp, and generally okay in an interesting sort of way... but over time, they've been getting clogged up, and unlike a laptop I can take apart (I usually roll with older ThinkPads) I don't see any way to clean out this keyboard. I guess the whole idea behind a mac product is that you bring it in to be serviced, and I did buy the extended warranty, so perhaps I just need to take the thing into the service center.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >That said, I think that the 'all usb-C' jump was a bad choice, and even if you agree with that vision, it was too soon; even today, I can't find a usb-C to wired ethernet adapter. Where, in rural Freedonia? https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/product/HJKF2ZM/A/belkin-usb-c-to-gigabit-ethernet-adapter https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/product/HJKF2ZM/A/belkin-usb-c... http://www.belkin.com/sg/p/P-F2CU040/ http://www.belkin.com/sg/p/P-F2CU040/ https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Aluminum-1-Gigabit-Compatible-ChromeBook/dp/B00ZZ6NW5E https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Aluminum-1-Gigabit-Compatible-C... https://www.amazon.com/Kanex-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter-Inches/dp/B00VBNSXKO https://www.amazon.com/Kanex-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter-Inches... (And another 20 chinese models -- some for $10 or so) http://simya.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008829861312/pdtl/USB-C-hub/1153195364/USB-Type-C-to-Gigabit-Ethernet-Adapter.htm http://simya.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008829861312...

greydius 9y ago

> The Touch Bar is useless garbage I think they probably realized this and then decided to put the escape key there to justify its existence.

coldtea 9y ago

>the new keyboard just feels worse and harder to use I agree with this. The problem I'd want them to solve with the keyboard is better tactical feedback and no dust/water getting inside -- not "smaller height", which they seem to have focused on. >The Touch Bar is useless garbage I'd settle for either a physical Escape key in the same position as it was + touch bar, or for a wholly physical set of keys with changeable display (like the Optimus keyboard). >and all my worries about dongleopolis becoming my life have become true. Just yesterday I had to find adapters for a thumb drive and an HDMI cable -- which was absolutely infuriating The small USB+HDMI+USB-C adapter would cater to all of those, and is pretty much required for any MBP USB-C user: https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digital-av-multiport-adapter?afid=p238%7CsBDKrr38B-dc_mtid_18707vxu38484_pcrid_146935977481_&cid=aos-sg-kwgo-pla-btb-product-MJ1K2AM/A https://www.apple.com/sg/shop/product/MJ1K2AM/A/usb-c-digita... Or you could go my route, and buy USB-C to X cables for HDMI, lighting, USB micro-B etc. No adapters required then -- you, just replace the existing cables on your peripherals with all USB-C ones (that would be ~$100, but for a $2k laptop, that's not much additional cost).

bane 9y ago
Thanks for the link. And you're right, it seems so essential that those ports feel like they should just be on the device. > I'd settle for either a physical Escape key in the same position as it was + touch bar, or for a wholly physical set of keys with changeable display (like the Optimus keyboard). I don't VIM all that much, so the ESC key works fine for me when I need it. It's just that I pretty much ignore the touchbar altogether and haven't found any compelling app or reason to use it. So it just sits there, draining power and costing money. The trackpad is so large now that I wish that it had been replaced by a more general purpose touchscreen with app specific actions and status directly indicated on it (e.g. "ready to drag", video scrubber + volume control, move the finder there, etc.). It would make the use-cases for the trackpad more discoverable instead of remembering half a dozen gestures, and move space steal gui controls away from apps and down by your hands. In fact, that entire huge space beneath the keyboard should just be a giant touch screen.

kiksy 9y ago

The trackpad has moments where it just doesn't seem to want to work correctly for certain complex movements like drag and drop. I'm months in with this stupid thing and I still can't get it to reliable draw a box around a bunch of icons and drag and drop. Glad this isn't just me! It seems next to impossible now to drag and drop one handed. I'm sure there is a knack to it, but I can't figure it out.