6 ms·

Mark Zuckerberg apologizes in full-page newspaper ads

47 points by aylmao 9y ago

WheelsAtLarge 9y ago
Interesting he is using newspapers, he's trying to persuade the older folk. The people most likely to be in government and the most likely to be voters. Got to give it to him, he's smart.
- greenyoda 9y ago
  > Got to give it to him, he's smart. His PR people are smart. If he were so smart, he would have had the foresight to understand that giving an app access to my friends' personal information just because I gave it access to mine wasn't such a great idea.
  - thezilch 9y ago
    Foresight is 20/20. I don't think Zuckerberg (and FB devs) aren't smart or can imagine why giving such data is a bad idea. It's more likely that they thought not many would find out, care, or that when found out that it'd touch their bottom line much. In other words, I think they had plenty of optics and are losing the gamble. I also think they could also only be losing in the short term; I wouldn't bet against "everyone" forgetting about it all in a month and going back to using FB. It's hard to imagine FB's stranglehold letting up. Some startup, prove me wrong.
    - sjwright 9y ago
      Hindsight is 20/20. Foresight requires awareness, attention and a moral compass.
  - 0x4f3759df 9y ago
    Was it truly Facebook's decision? Maybe there was some CIA/NSA pressure being applied.
- mlb_hn 9y ago
  Also, he can't really use Facebook for it if his target audience is the people who stopped using Facebook (they wouldn't see it).
- 21 9y ago
  Also UK and US - where biggest investors are located.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- tomcooks 9y ago
  50€ on this PR move having been suggested by his advisors at CA
- tehlike 9y ago
  There is also a view that he'll run for presidency some day.
lurker9 9y ago
what a slimy little weasel he is.
- matte_black 9y ago
  What is up with these personal attacks on Zuckerberg? He is a decent person like any other just doing the best he can. If people weren’t so vicious there wouldn’t be a need for privacy in this world.
  - 908087 9y ago
    > He is a decent person like any other just doing the best he can. Do you know him personally? If not, what indication has he given to make you so sure of that?
  - bringtheaction 9y ago
    And if people weren't thieving we wouldn't need locks on our doors either yet here we are.
  - crispinb 9y ago
    Personal attacks aren't useful. They degrade the debate we need to have about the malignancy of corporate power. That this cancer puts people like Zuckerberg (who is very far from 'decent' by any normal ethical standards) in power is a sideshow.
  - zuck52463 9y ago
    Putting aside his philanthropic gestures, which I'm forced to consider as cynical attempts to manipulate his public image, everything I've ever heard about Mr. Zuckerberg has been negative. I think its much safer to assume he's not a decent man. The onus is on him to prove otherwise.
  - Fins 9y ago
    > He is a decent person like any other Except that his behavior over years seems to suggest that he isn't. Maybe that's why people don't like him much?
debt 9y ago
“If we can’t, we don’t deserve it.” Ha even if you can, you don’t deserve it. Facebook’s insatiable desire for user data is so ingrained in their approach that they can’t distangle it even from their apologies. It’d be like an alcoholic saying hey if I can’t hold my liquor I don’t deserve to drink.
jMyles 9y ago
This kinda feels to me like making a donation to a competing propaganda firm as if to smooth things over in the intra-politics of influence. I mean, is he really trying to genuinely apologize to the victims here? Is this the most sincere idea FB had? Pretty lame.
- 908087 9y ago
  To me it feels like BP CEO Tony Hayward's PR non-apology "apology" tour. South Park captured it pretty perfectly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D01NHPnLrVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D01NHPnLrVs
gressquel 9y ago
I will repeat my previous post: I expected a non-conditional apology but there he is blaming on a single app being able to extract data. We dont want apology for the breach, we want apology for collecting all the data for so many years. We want to FB to delete the data they have collected even if it means a massive reduction in advertisement revenues. But I guess none of his algorithms can foresee the end of FB.com in the western part of the world. Good night sweet prince.
- jamesrom 9y ago
  >We dont want apology for the breach, we want apology for collecting all the data for so many years. Please don't feign surprise that facebook has been collecting your data. Everyone knew, but expected some level of privacy and security with the platform. That's what was breached here. >We want to FB to delete the data they have collected even if it means a massive reduction in advertisement revenues. That would be nice. The fact we all have to be very careful as to what we share with facebook makes it an almost unusable platform for privacy minded individuals. >But I guess none of his algorithms can foresee the end of FB.com in the western part of the world. >Good night sweet prince. Haha, if you think this marks the end of facebook... This is just, unfortunately, a larger political maneuver. Just watch.
  - portofcall 9y ago
    Please don't feign surprise that facebook has been collecting your data. Everyone knew, but expected some level of privacy and security with the platform. That's what was breached here. I’ve never had an account with them, but they buy records, they get to me through friends, family, and acquaintances. I expect some level of privacy when I don’t even use their sinking platform. I also expect that regulation is coming for FB, Uber, and the rest of Silicon Valley, and it’s about damned time. It’s too bad that it’s going to hurt people and companies that do nothing objectionable, but I prefer that to Facebook swaying elections and Uber killing people with their substandard SDV’s.
methodover 9y ago
Wait. What's weird is that they already closed the vector that CA used three years ago when this was first reported. From the NYT interview from earlier this week, what FB is working on now is a feature that'll let you see what apps may have been able to see your data through a friend. I'm curious what else they're going to do. I wonder if Zuck's gonna be like "Fuck it, no more apps. Fuck apps. No one can see your data but us and we're going to lock it down 100%."
- praisewhitey 9y ago
  Can anyone who regularly uses Facebook comment on what possible negative outcomes would come out of them shutting down apps or APIs that export your data?
- Haydos585x2 9y ago
  I wonder if we'll end up with some solution that works for interested people but no one else. Another settings cog saying "Share this post with friends and friend apps". I think they like apps because they make sure people stay on Facebook and any extra data they can gather. Maybe they'll kill them all and come back with a rebranded version in 6 months.
- erichurkman 9y ago
  A ton of their data is going to come from apps and third party sites embedding scripts from Facebook. Hell, even social auth gives them a _ton_ of data. ("Oh, you recently used Facebook to sign into weddingplanner.com? Here come the wedding ads... and the related ads to all of your friends.")
- resource0x 9y ago
  Curious why no one mentions this: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/15/mark-zuckerberg-could-be-running-for-president-in-2020.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/15/mark-zuckerberg-could-be-run... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/27/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-chief-executive-us-president https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/27/mark-z... Etc... Not so difficult to connect the dots IMO
kevmo 9y ago
Reddit had a great reaction gif from The Room on this: https://reddit.com/r/reactiongifs/comments/8717oy/mrw_zuckerberg_passionately_apologizes_for/ https://reddit.com/r/reactiongifs/comments/8717oy/mrw_zucker...
1337biz 9y ago
A cyntic would say these are just hidden donations to opinion maker institutions. But then again this is the right channel to reach his target group of lawmakers and government employeers or whoever is still reading print newspapers.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
1024core 9y ago
Facebook has always played fast-and-loose with the data. I don't want to get into specifics, but they actively ignored this shit, if it meant more user accounts being created. Imagine a storekeeper giving you the key to the cash register if you ask him for change for a dollar. There are no cameras near the register, and no monitoring.
cies 9y ago
He used (newspaper) ads to "apologize" for allowing advertisers to use data gathered on his ad-supported info sharing platform to increase effectiveness of their ads. Why did I quote the word apologize? Well, a sincere apology needs to be backed up by a change that reflects the apologiser's understanding of what he did wrong. I did not see any of that (yet), and I expect it to be a really hard thing to change in a huge business that make money off what he apologizes for. So it's not a sincere apology, it is... an ad.
bambax 9y ago
> "We have a responsibility to protect your information. If we can't, we don't deserve it." There are 2 problems with this: 1. You didn't, so you don't. 2. Deserve it? What? Why would you deserve our information?? You don't deserve our information, or anything, really. This is a business transaction. You provide a service, that we pay for with our data. How much of our data is your service worth, is what needs to be discussed.
- azag0 9y ago
  > deserve our information Deserve the responsibility.
- portofcall 9y ago
  3. Don’t apologize if it’s obvious that you’re being incredibly insincere, unless you’re a great actor. People can smell that kind of non-apology a mile off, and they’ll hate you for it, and distrust any apology that comes later. 4. Don’t make a big show of being apologetic if it’s likely that there’s another shoe waiting to drop; that looks less like an apology and more like a coverup. 5. Don’t make obviously misleading, false, or self-serving statements in an apology.
sjwright 9y ago
Say what you will about the strategy, that they felt the need to shout mea culpa so publicly is telling. I doubt they're anywhere near crisis territory yet, but a scandal like this will have a corrosive effect on numerous business vectors. My hypothesis—pure speculation based on nothing—is that Facebook has seen a sudden dip or collapse in advertising revenue. Think about it, would you risk associating your brand with Facebook micro-targeting right now?
- ColinFCodeChef 9y ago
  This seems a pretty accurate guess. Many of the major advertisers (Proctor & Gamble, Johnson & Johnson, Unilever) have already pulled back on spending with the platform as an ineffective use of advertising budget [0]. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/p-g-cuts-more-than-100-million-in-largely-ineffective-digital-ads-1501191104 https://www.wsj.com/articles/p-g-cuts-more-than-100-million-...
Darthy 9y ago
> "We have a responsibility to protect your information. If we can't, we don't deserve it." Then why don't you put your money where your mouth is and delete those 5 billion shadow profiles you collected, Mark?
mkempe 9y ago
Consider that he is likely trying to save his possible future as US President.
mkempe 9y ago
Meanwhile, his second-in-command Sheryl Sandberg has been pushing FOSTA, and thus destroyed personal ads on craigslist. [1] When will they publish an apology for that? [1] https://www.craigslist.org/about/FOSTA https://www.craigslist.org/about/FOSTA
ccvannorman 9y ago
Translation: "Dear customers, we're willing to sell your data for $$$$, and take newspaper ads out for $$ for the ONE TIME you came home to see our hand in the cookie jar. We Promise not to take any more cookies."
pasbesoin 9y ago
Like when you slammed everyone's (already posted) profile picture into public visibility? It's been downhill ever since. (Yes, newer FB users; you used to be able to determine the visibility of your profile picture. The whole "my dog, my baby picture, this pretty flower,..." profile picture thing really took off at the time of this change. No "opt-out" on this change, either. Not to mention the "opt-in" type of change most users actually prefer.)
staunch 9y ago
It's so damn exciting to see the world unfold as I had hoped. The hard part is that you have to wait for the pressure to build and society as a whole to catch up. Watching first-generation social internet services like Facebook, YouTube, Reddit, and Twitter has been fascinating and I cannot wait to see the next generation. Everyone on HN should be focused on building the replacements for these early attempts.
omarchowdhury 9y ago
Shouldn't he have posted this directly on Facebook?

47 points by aylmao 9y ago

Interesting he is using newspapers, he's trying to persuade the older folk. The people most likely to be in government and the most likely to be voters. Got to give it to him, he's smart.

greenyoda 9y ago
> Got to give it to him, he's smart. His PR people are smart. If he were so smart, he would have had the foresight to understand that giving an app access to my friends' personal information just because I gave it access to mine wasn't such a great idea.
- thezilch 9y ago
  Foresight is 20/20. I don't think Zuckerberg (and FB devs) aren't smart or can imagine why giving such data is a bad idea. It's more likely that they thought not many would find out, care, or that when found out that it'd touch their bottom line much. In other words, I think they had plenty of optics and are losing the gamble. I also think they could also only be losing in the short term; I wouldn't bet against "everyone" forgetting about it all in a month and going back to using FB. It's hard to imagine FB's stranglehold letting up. Some startup, prove me wrong.
  - sjwright 9y ago
    Hindsight is 20/20. Foresight requires awareness, attention and a moral compass.
- 0x4f3759df 9y ago
  Was it truly Facebook's decision? Maybe there was some CIA/NSA pressure being applied.
mlb_hn 9y ago
Also, he can't really use Facebook for it if his target audience is the people who stopped using Facebook (they wouldn't see it).
21 9y ago
Also UK and US - where biggest investors are located.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
tomcooks 9y ago
50€ on this PR move having been suggested by his advisors at CA
tehlike 9y ago
There is also a view that he'll run for presidency some day.

lurker9 9y ago

what a slimy little weasel he is.

matte_black 9y ago
What is up with these personal attacks on Zuckerberg? He is a decent person like any other just doing the best he can. If people weren’t so vicious there wouldn’t be a need for privacy in this world.
- 908087 9y ago
  > He is a decent person like any other just doing the best he can. Do you know him personally? If not, what indication has he given to make you so sure of that?
- bringtheaction 9y ago
  And if people weren't thieving we wouldn't need locks on our doors either yet here we are.
- crispinb 9y ago
  Personal attacks aren't useful. They degrade the debate we need to have about the malignancy of corporate power. That this cancer puts people like Zuckerberg (who is very far from 'decent' by any normal ethical standards) in power is a sideshow.
- zuck52463 9y ago
  Putting aside his philanthropic gestures, which I'm forced to consider as cynical attempts to manipulate his public image, everything I've ever heard about Mr. Zuckerberg has been negative. I think its much safer to assume he's not a decent man. The onus is on him to prove otherwise.
- Fins 9y ago
  > He is a decent person like any other Except that his behavior over years seems to suggest that he isn't. Maybe that's why people don't like him much?

debt 9y ago

“If we can’t, we don’t deserve it.” Ha even if you can, you don’t deserve it. Facebook’s insatiable desire for user data is so ingrained in their approach that they can’t distangle it even from their apologies. It’d be like an alcoholic saying hey if I can’t hold my liquor I don’t deserve to drink.

jMyles 9y ago

This kinda feels to me like making a donation to a competing propaganda firm as if to smooth things over in the intra-politics of influence. I mean, is he really trying to genuinely apologize to the victims here? Is this the most sincere idea FB had? Pretty lame.

908087 9y ago
To me it feels like BP CEO Tony Hayward's PR non-apology "apology" tour. South Park captured it pretty perfectly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D01NHPnLrVs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D01NHPnLrVs

gressquel 9y ago

I will repeat my previous post: I expected a non-conditional apology but there he is blaming on a single app being able to extract data. We dont want apology for the breach, we want apology for collecting all the data for so many years. We want to FB to delete the data they have collected even if it means a massive reduction in advertisement revenues. But I guess none of his algorithms can foresee the end of FB.com in the western part of the world. Good night sweet prince.

jamesrom 9y ago
>We dont want apology for the breach, we want apology for collecting all the data for so many years. Please don't feign surprise that facebook has been collecting your data. Everyone knew, but expected some level of privacy and security with the platform. That's what was breached here. >We want to FB to delete the data they have collected even if it means a massive reduction in advertisement revenues. That would be nice. The fact we all have to be very careful as to what we share with facebook makes it an almost unusable platform for privacy minded individuals. >But I guess none of his algorithms can foresee the end of FB.com in the western part of the world. >Good night sweet prince. Haha, if you think this marks the end of facebook... This is just, unfortunately, a larger political maneuver. Just watch.
- portofcall 9y ago
  Please don't feign surprise that facebook has been collecting your data. Everyone knew, but expected some level of privacy and security with the platform. That's what was breached here. I’ve never had an account with them, but they buy records, they get to me through friends, family, and acquaintances. I expect some level of privacy when I don’t even use their sinking platform. I also expect that regulation is coming for FB, Uber, and the rest of Silicon Valley, and it’s about damned time. It’s too bad that it’s going to hurt people and companies that do nothing objectionable, but I prefer that to Facebook swaying elections and Uber killing people with their substandard SDV’s.

methodover 9y ago

Wait. What's weird is that they already closed the vector that CA used three years ago when this was first reported. From the NYT interview from earlier this week, what FB is working on now is a feature that'll let you see what apps may have been able to see your data through a friend. I'm curious what else they're going to do. I wonder if Zuck's gonna be like "Fuck it, no more apps. Fuck apps. No one can see your data but us and we're going to lock it down 100%."

praisewhitey 9y ago
Can anyone who regularly uses Facebook comment on what possible negative outcomes would come out of them shutting down apps or APIs that export your data?
Haydos585x2 9y ago
I wonder if we'll end up with some solution that works for interested people but no one else. Another settings cog saying "Share this post with friends and friend apps". I think they like apps because they make sure people stay on Facebook and any extra data they can gather. Maybe they'll kill them all and come back with a rebranded version in 6 months.
erichurkman 9y ago
A ton of their data is going to come from apps and third party sites embedding scripts from Facebook. Hell, even social auth gives them a _ton_ of data. ("Oh, you recently used Facebook to sign into weddingplanner.com? Here come the wedding ads... and the related ads to all of your friends.")
resource0x 9y ago
Curious why no one mentions this: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/15/mark-zuckerberg-could-be-running-for-president-in-2020.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/15/mark-zuckerberg-could-be-run... https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/27/mark-zuckerberg-facebook-chief-executive-us-president https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/27/mark-z... Etc... Not so difficult to connect the dots IMO

kevmo 9y ago

Reddit had a great reaction gif from The Room on this: https://reddit.com/r/reactiongifs/comments/8717oy/mrw_zuckerberg_passionately_apologizes_for/ https://reddit.com/r/reactiongifs/comments/8717oy/mrw_zucker...

1337biz 9y ago

A cyntic would say these are just hidden donations to opinion maker institutions. But then again this is the right channel to reach his target group of lawmakers and government employeers or whoever is still reading print newspapers.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

1024core 9y ago

Facebook has always played fast-and-loose with the data. I don't want to get into specifics, but they actively ignored this shit, if it meant more user accounts being created. Imagine a storekeeper giving you the key to the cash register if you ask him for change for a dollar. There are no cameras near the register, and no monitoring.

cies 9y ago

He used (newspaper) ads to "apologize" for allowing advertisers to use data gathered on his ad-supported info sharing platform to increase effectiveness of their ads. Why did I quote the word apologize? Well, a sincere apology needs to be backed up by a change that reflects the apologiser's understanding of what he did wrong. I did not see any of that (yet), and I expect it to be a really hard thing to change in a huge business that make money off what he apologizes for. So it's not a sincere apology, it is... an ad.

bambax 9y ago

> "We have a responsibility to protect your information. If we can't, we don't deserve it." There are 2 problems with this: 1. You didn't, so you don't. 2. Deserve it? What? Why would you deserve our information?? You don't deserve our information, or anything, really. This is a business transaction. You provide a service, that we pay for with our data. How much of our data is your service worth, is what needs to be discussed.

azag0 9y ago
> deserve our information Deserve the responsibility.
portofcall 9y ago
3. Don’t apologize if it’s obvious that you’re being incredibly insincere, unless you’re a great actor. People can smell that kind of non-apology a mile off, and they’ll hate you for it, and distrust any apology that comes later. 4. Don’t make a big show of being apologetic if it’s likely that there’s another shoe waiting to drop; that looks less like an apology and more like a coverup. 5. Don’t make obviously misleading, false, or self-serving statements in an apology.

sjwright 9y ago

Say what you will about the strategy, that they felt the need to shout mea culpa so publicly is telling. I doubt they're anywhere near crisis territory yet, but a scandal like this will have a corrosive effect on numerous business vectors. My hypothesis—pure speculation based on nothing—is that Facebook has seen a sudden dip or collapse in advertising revenue. Think about it, would you risk associating your brand with Facebook micro-targeting right now?

ColinFCodeChef 9y ago
This seems a pretty accurate guess. Many of the major advertisers (Proctor & Gamble, Johnson & Johnson, Unilever) have already pulled back on spending with the platform as an ineffective use of advertising budget [0]. [0] https://www.wsj.com/articles/p-g-cuts-more-than-100-million-in-largely-ineffective-digital-ads-1501191104 https://www.wsj.com/articles/p-g-cuts-more-than-100-million-...

Darthy 9y ago

> "We have a responsibility to protect your information. If we can't, we don't deserve it." Then why don't you put your money where your mouth is and delete those 5 billion shadow profiles you collected, Mark?

mkempe 9y ago

Consider that he is likely trying to save his possible future as US President.

mkempe 9y ago

Meanwhile, his second-in-command Sheryl Sandberg has been pushing FOSTA, and thus destroyed personal ads on craigslist. [1] When will they publish an apology for that? [1] https://www.craigslist.org/about/FOSTA https://www.craigslist.org/about/FOSTA

ccvannorman 9y ago

Translation: "Dear customers, we're willing to sell your data for $$$$, and take newspaper ads out for $$ for the ONE TIME you came home to see our hand in the cookie jar. We Promise not to take any more cookies."

pasbesoin 9y ago

Like when you slammed everyone's (already posted) profile picture into public visibility? It's been downhill ever since. (Yes, newer FB users; you used to be able to determine the visibility of your profile picture. The whole "my dog, my baby picture, this pretty flower,..." profile picture thing really took off at the time of this change. No "opt-out" on this change, either. Not to mention the "opt-in" type of change most users actually prefer.)

staunch 9y ago

It's so damn exciting to see the world unfold as I had hoped. The hard part is that you have to wait for the pressure to build and society as a whole to catch up. Watching first-generation social internet services like Facebook, YouTube, Reddit, and Twitter has been fascinating and I cannot wait to see the next generation. Everyone on HN should be focused on building the replacements for these early attempts.

omarchowdhury 9y ago

Shouldn't he have posted this directly on Facebook?