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>>>Hopefully it will also change the "move fast & proper security is an afterthought" model of startups. In short: starting startups will become more difficult

by nickpp 9y ago

>>>Hopefully it will also change the "move fast & proper security is an afterthought" model of startups. In short: starting startups will become more difficult. One of the things most taxing and scary for people in our society, starting your own business, but also one of the things most needed and useful (who else creates jobs and Big Cos later?!) will become harder to do. But what did startups ever did for us, no?!

adrianN 9y ago
Yeah, let's just blow all concerns about privacy in the wind. Think of the jobs! While we're at it we might also want to abolish building codes, to combat high rents. And what about OSHA? Clearly safety rules for workers just make it harder to start hardware companies!
- nickpp 9y ago
  Everything truly important for customers will become an advantage for the provider in the free market and it will improve. Including privacy. Governmental attempts to short-circuit that process are at best misguided at at worst harmful. They create ossified markets where established players rule and innovation and competition are nonexistent. Natural consequences - but hard to accept when one just takes the rallying cry du-jour in arms. "Think of the children!"
  - adrianN 9y ago
    You assume consumers with perfect information unselfishly optimizing for the long term good of all people and a market with true competition. None of which is true in reality.
    - nickpp 9y ago
      I don't assume anything. I just observe the "freer" markets like computers, entertainment and software and marvel at the rich choices, advances and quality present in spite of no regulations requiring for them. And then I look at any heavily regulated markets and I shudder at the prices, lack of choice, crappy quality and how horrible stuff happens in spite of regulations supposed to prevent it. So I draw a logical conclusion: Free Markets beat Regulations pretty much every time.
      - IAmEveryone 9y ago
        So.. How exactly is "regulation" currently stymieing competitors to Facebook and Google with better privacy protections? Because I can think of quite a lot of reasons not to start a search engine or social network. Yet "regulation" is nowhere on that list, because I can't think of a single one that warrants any concern compared to the technical and market challenges. Take DuckDuckGo as one example of a privacy-focused competitor to the behemoths: Are they loudly complaining that they'd long have dethroned google with their better privacy protections if only regulation X wasn't stopping them? Your list also doesn't make any sense. Computers, entertainment and software seem to be about as regulated as online platforms, in that I can once again not think of any serious regulation in the US that would stop me from making a movie. Pharmaceuticals are generally accepted to be among the most regulated products. Yet I would rate their progress to be somewhat comparable to that of "entertainment". Which isn't really a comparison that makes any sense, but if you can just wing it so can I. It's quite obvious that the vast majority of people think it's a bad idea for political parties to have access to the photos they posted on Facebook just because one of their friends took some quiz. Why, then, should we believe in the magic of the market to find a solution to this clear interest, when we can also avail ourselves of the mechanism invented to solve such collective action problems, namely government? What are the possible downsides to banning invasive advertisement and data analytics by political campaigns, except a mild loss in revenue for the platforms, and whatever loss the campaigns suffer from no longer knowing my sexual orientation?
        nickpp 9y ago
        Facebook and Google were not the first social network and search engine, respectively. And still they won the market, dethroning established players. I know it's not very intuitive, but free markets and competition work. Unless your freeze them with (usually brain-dead) regulations. Governments have a role, of course, but when you call them to solve everything, to protect us from ourselves and you give them every power imaginable - you are creating a monster. A monster which will step on every right you thought you had and take anything they want from you "for your own good".
        9y ago

by nickpp 9y ago

adrianN 9y ago

Yeah, let's just blow all concerns about privacy in the wind. Think of the jobs! While we're at it we might also want to abolish building codes, to combat high rents. And what about OSHA? Clearly safety rules for workers just make it harder to start hardware companies!

nickpp 9y ago
Everything truly important for customers will become an advantage for the provider in the free market and it will improve. Including privacy. Governmental attempts to short-circuit that process are at best misguided at at worst harmful. They create ossified markets where established players rule and innovation and competition are nonexistent. Natural consequences - but hard to accept when one just takes the rallying cry du-jour in arms. "Think of the children!"
- adrianN 9y ago
  You assume consumers with perfect information unselfishly optimizing for the long term good of all people and a market with true competition. None of which is true in reality.
  - nickpp 9y ago
    I don't assume anything. I just observe the "freer" markets like computers, entertainment and software and marvel at the rich choices, advances and quality present in spite of no regulations requiring for them. And then I look at any heavily regulated markets and I shudder at the prices, lack of choice, crappy quality and how horrible stuff happens in spite of regulations supposed to prevent it. So I draw a logical conclusion: Free Markets beat Regulations pretty much every time.
    - IAmEveryone 9y ago
      So.. How exactly is "regulation" currently stymieing competitors to Facebook and Google with better privacy protections? Because I can think of quite a lot of reasons not to start a search engine or social network. Yet "regulation" is nowhere on that list, because I can't think of a single one that warrants any concern compared to the technical and market challenges. Take DuckDuckGo as one example of a privacy-focused competitor to the behemoths: Are they loudly complaining that they'd long have dethroned google with their better privacy protections if only regulation X wasn't stopping them? Your list also doesn't make any sense. Computers, entertainment and software seem to be about as regulated as online platforms, in that I can once again not think of any serious regulation in the US that would stop me from making a movie. Pharmaceuticals are generally accepted to be among the most regulated products. Yet I would rate their progress to be somewhat comparable to that of "entertainment". Which isn't really a comparison that makes any sense, but if you can just wing it so can I. It's quite obvious that the vast majority of people think it's a bad idea for political parties to have access to the photos they posted on Facebook just because one of their friends took some quiz. Why, then, should we believe in the magic of the market to find a solution to this clear interest, when we can also avail ourselves of the mechanism invented to solve such collective action problems, namely government? What are the possible downsides to banning invasive advertisement and data analytics by political campaigns, except a mild loss in revenue for the platforms, and whatever loss the campaigns suffer from no longer knowing my sexual orientation?
      - nickpp 9y ago
        Facebook and Google were not the first social network and search engine, respectively. And still they won the market, dethroning established players. I know it's not very intuitive, but free markets and competition work. Unless your freeze them with (usually brain-dead) regulations. Governments have a role, of course, but when you call them to solve everything, to protect us from ourselves and you give them every power imaginable - you are creating a monster. A monster which will step on every right you thought you had and take anything they want from you "for your own good".
        9y ago