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Slightly related; I'm finding the bicycle headlights (and to a lesser extent, rear lights) are becoming a blinding hazard for other cyclists on darker bike path

Slightly related; I'm finding the bicycle headlights (and to a lesser extent, rear lights) are becoming a blinding hazard for other cyclists on darker bike paths. Bike lights have certainly gotten brighter and cheaper over the past couple of years, and more people have them. Certainly, this is a good thing for visibility on the roads, where you're competing to be seen against all manner of light sources, and there is high ambient light. But on a darker off-road bike path, there is little ambient light, and it completely blinds a passer by. For a pedestrian, this is an annoyance; for a passing cyclist, this means you cannot see the path in front of you for a few seconds. I regularly have to shield my eyes from passing bikes in the evening. I don't think there's any real solution to this problem; no-one's going to regulate and police this, and people don't seem give enough cares about (or just don't think about) anyone other than themselves.

iforgotpassword 9y ago
this so much. i guess we have LEDs to tjank for that. then people just slap them onto their bikes without giving it any thought or even being like 'yeah I'm gonna make it shine really high so i can see even further'. also bonus points to people who set them to blink because it saves 2$ a year in batteries but is even more irritating in the dark as it's much harder to extrapolate the path of movement.
- mkj 9y ago
  Yep, the problem with LEDs is it's such a tiny point source. Lights like Busch & Müller's are better - the LED isn't directly visible out the front, it shines off a reflector. Problems solved by German regulation (StVZO)!
- angrygoat 9y ago
  This problem actually stopped me bike commuting; one of the paths I need to ride on after dark is along a river wall, and the temporary blindness just felt too dangerous. It should be a matter of courtesy to use quality lights, aimed appropriately. I'm sure a lot of people who personally use these lights are also annoyed by other users of them.
  - notacoward 9y ago
    > I'm sure a lot of people who personally use these lights are also annoyed by other users of them. I'm sure a few are, but there's probably also a lot of selective perception going on. They're hyper-aware of others causing problems, maybe they even stop to look at their own lights but don't even realize that this alignment could cause that problem they saw. Also, a lot of the worst offenders are bike commuters, who are all going the same way at the same times, so they're not even likely to notice very many goofballs shining light in their faces.
CalRobert 9y ago
It's tough, because on a remote, dark path (or road in my case) you need a good deal of light because potholes could be fatal. I used to cycle commute on a windy, hilly road with a cliff on the shoulder (and a nice brutal climb at the end) and at night I had to slow down a lot just to avoid outrunning my light.
Tharkun 9y ago
I cannot understand why a lot of cyclists aim their headlights slightly up instead of down. Are they trying to illumunate the sky? The eyes of their passers-by? I aim mine down, so the road in front of me is illuminated for a couple of meters.
- Hnrobert42 9y ago
  Depending on your speed, you need more than a few meters. That said, I always manually dip my headlight when approaching someone.
- notacoward 9y ago
  I don't think it's deliberate. They just don't care enough to expend effort on aiming the light correctly. Maybe they don't care because they don't realize the effect it has on others. They get lights that are actually twice as bright as they need to be, adjust them so that half the light goes forward and down like it should, and they're happy. Never mind that the rest of the light is blinding others.
  - btrettel 9y ago
    Your comment fits with my experience. When I was newer to night cycling I did not think about the angle of my light. I do not remember precisely if someone complained to me or if I was blinded by other cyclists' lights, but I did eventually start pointing my light entirely towards the ground.
- nsnick 9y ago
  Cyclists aim their lights up so that cars can see them. The lights on a bicycle exist more so the cyclist can be seen than for the cyclist to see.
  - usrusr 9y ago
    That used to be the case, now high powered LED bike lights are so bright that the overexposed spot right in front of the bike is almost blinding the rider himself. The solution are properly beam-shaped lights like the Axendo series from Spanninga, but they are a tough sell even in countries where beam shaping is mandatory.
notacoward 9y ago
For the running subclass of pedestrians, it's a bit more than an annoyance. During my Silicon Valley trips (typically one week a month) I often run on the Stevens Creek trail, early enough that it's pitch black in places. I wear my own headlamp, which I'm careful to keep turned low in both senses. Some of the early Google commuters have their super-bright lights aimed so high that they're right in my face even though my head is even higher than theirs. The resulting blindness might not endanger my life, but it certainly increases the risk of a wrong step leading to a twisted ankle or knee. The best solution safety-wise would be for the path itself to be lit, but of course there are cost and environment issues with that. So we're left with better lamp design. As others have pointed out, multiple LEDs would be better than just one. Reflectors and lenses to keep the light more focused forward and down would be even better. Unfortunately, better lights are likely to cost more, so nobody would buy them. As with the SUV drivers and their super-bright blue/purple lights shining straight into car drivers' faces, danger to others is an externality the purchasers don't care about. People will buy the lights that give them the most lumens on the path/road per dollar, even if half the output is not helping them but is increasing danger for others.
- paultopia 9y ago
  It doesn't help that bike lights can get comically expensive. I actually remember someone trying to sell me a $200 bike light in some shop on University Ave in Palo Alto a number of years ago (and then looking me like I was some kind of pond scum when I was horrified by the price). Can't really blame people for not being willing to spend hundreds of dollars on a glorified flashlight. (In my case, I was in grad school at the time. The bike itself had only cost $400!)
- askvictor 9y ago
  Even a reflective white stripe in the middle of a path is usually enough to see it quite well, and lessen the need to lights. The only time I need a light when riding on a path is when I can't see the path itself, which is when it's bitumen and there's no line markings on it
xioxox 9y ago
I find that rapidly flashing bike lights screw with my visual system. I can't concentrate properly if they're in my field of view. They must be a safety hazard unless I'm alone in this respect.
- jeffwass 9y ago
  Glad to hear you say this!! I’m in the same boat, the flashing cyclist lights hurt my eyes and give me headaches. Sometimes I need to hold up my hand like the sun visor, to cover the flashing light. Other times I’m tempted to turn on my brights to ensure I’m not too close when passing. The cyclists choose these flashing lights for safety but above some critical brightness it makes things less safe I’m surprised there’s no regulation of brightness or “flashiness” for bicycle lights.
  - stordoff 9y ago
    > I’m surprised there’s no regulation of brightness or “flashiness” for bicycle lights. There is, at least in the UK, though perhaps not the regulation you may want: > The lamps may be steady or flashing [...] but the flash rate must be between 60 and 240 equal flashes per minute (14 per second) and the luminous intensity must be at least 4 candela. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/407848/Information_Sheet_Pedal_Cycles_Lighting.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm...
expertentipp 9y ago
Something infuriating - bright, flashing, LED bicycle headlights directed straight horizontally. In cities where bicycles are widely used these are really irritating, safety hazard probably even.
matt_wulfeck 9y ago
Actually there is a solution. When someone has blinding lights on you should stop them for a few minutes to explain why it’s hard to see with their lights. Somebody did that for me and it now I point my lights down when I pass people head on.
- askvictor 9y ago
  You could do this to every passer by and still hardly make a dint; that's assuming you actually have the time and energy every time this happens (which I certainly don't). My compromise is to put my hand out in front of my eyes to both shield my own vision, and also hopefully to send a message to the oncoming cyclist. A more aggressive approach, when I'm on a bike myself, is to briefly turn on my own bright headlight, pointed onto the oncoming cyclist's face; I don't do this particularly often nowadays, but would be curious to see which is more effective at behaviour change.

iforgotpassword 9y ago

this so much. i guess we have LEDs to tjank for that. then people just slap them onto their bikes without giving it any thought or even being like 'yeah I'm gonna make it shine really high so i can see even further'. also bonus points to people who set them to blink because it saves 2$ a year in batteries but is even more irritating in the dark as it's much harder to extrapolate the path of movement.

mkj 9y ago
Yep, the problem with LEDs is it's such a tiny point source. Lights like Busch & Müller's are better - the LED isn't directly visible out the front, it shines off a reflector. Problems solved by German regulation (StVZO)!
angrygoat 9y ago
This problem actually stopped me bike commuting; one of the paths I need to ride on after dark is along a river wall, and the temporary blindness just felt too dangerous. It should be a matter of courtesy to use quality lights, aimed appropriately. I'm sure a lot of people who personally use these lights are also annoyed by other users of them.
- notacoward 9y ago
  > I'm sure a lot of people who personally use these lights are also annoyed by other users of them. I'm sure a few are, but there's probably also a lot of selective perception going on. They're hyper-aware of others causing problems, maybe they even stop to look at their own lights but don't even realize that this alignment could cause that problem they saw. Also, a lot of the worst offenders are bike commuters, who are all going the same way at the same times, so they're not even likely to notice very many goofballs shining light in their faces.

CalRobert 9y ago

It's tough, because on a remote, dark path (or road in my case) you need a good deal of light because potholes could be fatal. I used to cycle commute on a windy, hilly road with a cliff on the shoulder (and a nice brutal climb at the end) and at night I had to slow down a lot just to avoid outrunning my light.

Tharkun 9y ago

I cannot understand why a lot of cyclists aim their headlights slightly up instead of down. Are they trying to illumunate the sky? The eyes of their passers-by? I aim mine down, so the road in front of me is illuminated for a couple of meters.

Hnrobert42 9y ago
Depending on your speed, you need more than a few meters. That said, I always manually dip my headlight when approaching someone.
notacoward 9y ago
I don't think it's deliberate. They just don't care enough to expend effort on aiming the light correctly. Maybe they don't care because they don't realize the effect it has on others. They get lights that are actually twice as bright as they need to be, adjust them so that half the light goes forward and down like it should, and they're happy. Never mind that the rest of the light is blinding others.
- btrettel 9y ago
  Your comment fits with my experience. When I was newer to night cycling I did not think about the angle of my light. I do not remember precisely if someone complained to me or if I was blinded by other cyclists' lights, but I did eventually start pointing my light entirely towards the ground.
nsnick 9y ago
Cyclists aim their lights up so that cars can see them. The lights on a bicycle exist more so the cyclist can be seen than for the cyclist to see.
- usrusr 9y ago
  That used to be the case, now high powered LED bike lights are so bright that the overexposed spot right in front of the bike is almost blinding the rider himself. The solution are properly beam-shaped lights like the Axendo series from Spanninga, but they are a tough sell even in countries where beam shaping is mandatory.

notacoward 9y ago

For the running subclass of pedestrians, it's a bit more than an annoyance. During my Silicon Valley trips (typically one week a month) I often run on the Stevens Creek trail, early enough that it's pitch black in places. I wear my own headlamp, which I'm careful to keep turned low in both senses. Some of the early Google commuters have their super-bright lights aimed so high that they're right in my face even though my head is even higher than theirs. The resulting blindness might not endanger my life, but it certainly increases the risk of a wrong step leading to a twisted ankle or knee. The best solution safety-wise would be for the path itself to be lit, but of course there are cost and environment issues with that. So we're left with better lamp design. As others have pointed out, multiple LEDs would be better than just one. Reflectors and lenses to keep the light more focused forward and down would be even better. Unfortunately, better lights are likely to cost more, so nobody would buy them. As with the SUV drivers and their super-bright blue/purple lights shining straight into car drivers' faces, danger to others is an externality the purchasers don't care about. People will buy the lights that give them the most lumens on the path/road per dollar, even if half the output is not helping them but is increasing danger for others.

paultopia 9y ago
It doesn't help that bike lights can get comically expensive. I actually remember someone trying to sell me a $200 bike light in some shop on University Ave in Palo Alto a number of years ago (and then looking me like I was some kind of pond scum when I was horrified by the price). Can't really blame people for not being willing to spend hundreds of dollars on a glorified flashlight. (In my case, I was in grad school at the time. The bike itself had only cost $400!)
askvictor 9y ago
Even a reflective white stripe in the middle of a path is usually enough to see it quite well, and lessen the need to lights. The only time I need a light when riding on a path is when I can't see the path itself, which is when it's bitumen and there's no line markings on it

xioxox 9y ago

I find that rapidly flashing bike lights screw with my visual system. I can't concentrate properly if they're in my field of view. They must be a safety hazard unless I'm alone in this respect.

jeffwass 9y ago
Glad to hear you say this!! I’m in the same boat, the flashing cyclist lights hurt my eyes and give me headaches. Sometimes I need to hold up my hand like the sun visor, to cover the flashing light. Other times I’m tempted to turn on my brights to ensure I’m not too close when passing. The cyclists choose these flashing lights for safety but above some critical brightness it makes things less safe I’m surprised there’s no regulation of brightness or “flashiness” for bicycle lights.
- stordoff 9y ago
  > I’m surprised there’s no regulation of brightness or “flashiness” for bicycle lights. There is, at least in the UK, though perhaps not the regulation you may want: > The lamps may be steady or flashing [...] but the flash rate must be between 60 and 240 equal flashes per minute (14 per second) and the luminous intensity must be at least 4 candela. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/407848/Information_Sheet_Pedal_Cycles_Lighting.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm...

expertentipp 9y ago

Something infuriating - bright, flashing, LED bicycle headlights directed straight horizontally. In cities where bicycles are widely used these are really irritating, safety hazard probably even.

matt_wulfeck 9y ago

Actually there is a solution. When someone has blinding lights on you should stop them for a few minutes to explain why it’s hard to see with their lights. Somebody did that for me and it now I point my lights down when I pass people head on.

askvictor 9y ago
You could do this to every passer by and still hardly make a dint; that's assuming you actually have the time and energy every time this happens (which I certainly don't). My compromise is to put my hand out in front of my eyes to both shield my own vision, and also hopefully to send a message to the oncoming cyclist. A more aggressive approach, when I'm on a bike myself, is to briefly turn on my own bright headlight, pointed onto the oncoming cyclist's face; I don't do this particularly often nowadays, but would be curious to see which is more effective at behaviour change.