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Do you trust the EFF? > The number one creepiest thing on our list of privacy-invasive practices comes courtesy of Verizon (and AT&T, which quickly killed a si

Do you trust the EFF? > The number one creepiest thing on our list of privacy-invasive practices comes courtesy of Verizon (and AT&T, which quickly killed a similar program after Verizon started getting blowback). > Snooping through your traffic and inserting ads Which ISPs did it before? AT&T, Charter, CMA > Hijacking your searches Which ISPs did it before? Charter, Cogent, DirecPC, Frontier, Wide Open West All of these areas are going to be tried again by the ISPs with this law. [1] https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/03/five-creepy-things-your-isp-could-do-if-congress-repeals-fccs-privacy-protections https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/03/five-creepy-things-you...

peterwwillis 9y ago
> Snooping through your traffic and inserting ads Ok, so Google doesn't inject ads into your web traffic. But they inject ads into websites using AdSense, and into search results, and their products, and any technology linked to their ad platform (which is basically all technology related to the web). To increase ad revenue, they snoop on any personal data you store with Google. And they use their ads to collect more info about where you go on the web. > Hijacking your searches So, Google doesn't need to hijack your search, because they are most people's preferred search engine. But they do proxy your browser's connection when you click on a search result from a mobile browser (AMP). They're starting to do this with your e-mail, too. And they sometimes do this with your DNS records, so they know every site you load, period. I would call that connection hijacking, tracking, and snooping. Re: the other points in that article, they already sell your data to marketers, all their software is already pre-installed on your phone/tablet/chromebook/desktop/laptop, and they definitely track you with cookies. Google has a competitive advantage in that they have a walled-off platform where nobody else can make money off of you. The ISPs want a shot at making money off you, too. Since both are doing virtually the same thing, I don't see a big difference. Just the means by which they do them. Google has been reshaping the entire internet and web just to maximize the way they can profit off my personal information. I don't see the ISPs doing that. What I'm curious about is, why is the EFF so upset about what ISPs do, but not upset about what Google does, when Google's actions are literally affecting an entire industry and most of the world, and not just its own customers?
- drawkbox 9y ago
  > The ISPs want a shot at making money off you, too - Do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data? Do you think that is the place of an ISP? - Does it bother you you are PAYING your ISP and they are reselling your data as well? - Do you trust Comcast and Verizon and like that you are paying them to sell your data when you just want to use them to get online and are ok with this? I don't think anyone argues Google has power but they aren't your 'gateway' to the internet that you pay for privacy. Your argument is basically that you think Google has overreach so you want ISPs to take that from them or also do that? I am against Google Fiber ISP having access that ISPs just won with bribery over innovation/product offerings that people want. If Facebook had an ISP I wouldn't want them doing it either via the ISP. > What I'm curious about is, why is the EFF so upset about what ISPs do, but not upset about what Google does, when Google's actions are literally affecting an entire industry and most of the world, and not just its own customers? Products built on top of the internet are way different than products that are the base of the network. You should not be tracked at the network/gateway level ever. If ISPs 'want a shot at making money off you' then let them build a service such as a search engine, social network or maybe like Comcast is doing with Hulu. Don't give up your rights at the gateway of the web just because you have a grudge or bias against Google. > Google has been reshaping the entire internet and web just to maximize the way they can profit off my personal information. I don't see the ISPs doing that. Also your points about Google are rich considering you have a @gmail account in your HN profile. If they are so overpowering why do you use them and not your ISPs email system? Since you have no issue with ISPs selling data that you are paying them to keep private, you would be fine with Google Fiber ISP also doing that? Careful what you wish for and freedoms you give up due to bias ...
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - peterwwillis 9y ago
    Your basic complaint is that it isn't fair that you can't opt out of your ISP pilfering your traffic. But 1) you can use https-only services, 2) you can use a vpn, and 3) you can use a different ISP. You obviously have alternatives, so there's no reason I can see that your ISP being unfair. I care a teeny bit about privacy, but I care a whole lot more about anticompetitive monopolistic practices. IMO, ISPs are absolutely guilty of those - but my point is, so is Google. I care when somebody changes the design of the entire web for their company's sole profit. That's why I'm pointing out Google's practices, and how I think they're doing much worse things than ISPs. If you don't care about anticompetitive monopolistic practices, and only care about privacy, then I can see how you might not mind what Google is doing. But soon, Google will be doing to you what they're making impossible for the ISP to do.

peterwwillis 9y ago

> Snooping through your traffic and inserting ads Ok, so Google doesn't inject ads into your web traffic. But they inject ads into websites using AdSense, and into search results, and their products, and any technology linked to their ad platform (which is basically all technology related to the web). To increase ad revenue, they snoop on any personal data you store with Google. And they use their ads to collect more info about where you go on the web. > Hijacking your searches So, Google doesn't need to hijack your search, because they are most people's preferred search engine. But they do proxy your browser's connection when you click on a search result from a mobile browser (AMP). They're starting to do this with your e-mail, too. And they sometimes do this with your DNS records, so they know every site you load, period. I would call that connection hijacking, tracking, and snooping. Re: the other points in that article, they already sell your data to marketers, all their software is already pre-installed on your phone/tablet/chromebook/desktop/laptop, and they definitely track you with cookies. Google has a competitive advantage in that they have a walled-off platform where nobody else can make money off of you. The ISPs want a shot at making money off you, too. Since both are doing virtually the same thing, I don't see a big difference. Just the means by which they do them. Google has been reshaping the entire internet and web just to maximize the way they can profit off my personal information. I don't see the ISPs doing that. What I'm curious about is, why is the EFF so upset about what ISPs do, but not upset about what Google does, when Google's actions are literally affecting an entire industry and most of the world, and not just its own customers?

drawkbox 9y ago
> The ISPs want a shot at making money off you, too - Do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data? Do you think that is the place of an ISP? - Does it bother you you are PAYING your ISP and they are reselling your data as well? - Do you trust Comcast and Verizon and like that you are paying them to sell your data when you just want to use them to get online and are ok with this? I don't think anyone argues Google has power but they aren't your 'gateway' to the internet that you pay for privacy. Your argument is basically that you think Google has overreach so you want ISPs to take that from them or also do that? I am against Google Fiber ISP having access that ISPs just won with bribery over innovation/product offerings that people want. If Facebook had an ISP I wouldn't want them doing it either via the ISP. > What I'm curious about is, why is the EFF so upset about what ISPs do, but not upset about what Google does, when Google's actions are literally affecting an entire industry and most of the world, and not just its own customers? Products built on top of the internet are way different than products that are the base of the network. You should not be tracked at the network/gateway level ever. If ISPs 'want a shot at making money off you' then let them build a service such as a search engine, social network or maybe like Comcast is doing with Hulu. Don't give up your rights at the gateway of the web just because you have a grudge or bias against Google. > Google has been reshaping the entire internet and web just to maximize the way they can profit off my personal information. I don't see the ISPs doing that. Also your points about Google are rich considering you have a @gmail account in your HN profile. If they are so overpowering why do you use them and not your ISPs email system? Since you have no issue with ISPs selling data that you are paying them to keep private, you would be fine with Google Fiber ISP also doing that? Careful what you wish for and freedoms you give up due to bias ...
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- peterwwillis 9y ago
  Your basic complaint is that it isn't fair that you can't opt out of your ISP pilfering your traffic. But 1) you can use https-only services, 2) you can use a vpn, and 3) you can use a different ISP. You obviously have alternatives, so there's no reason I can see that your ISP being unfair. I care a teeny bit about privacy, but I care a whole lot more about anticompetitive monopolistic practices. IMO, ISPs are absolutely guilty of those - but my point is, so is Google. I care when somebody changes the design of the entire web for their company's sole profit. That's why I'm pointing out Google's practices, and how I think they're doing much worse things than ISPs. If you don't care about anticompetitive monopolistic practices, and only care about privacy, then I can see how you might not mind what Google is doing. But soon, Google will be doing to you what they're making impossible for the ISP to do.