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> But the pro-gun lobby in the US are bringing all of this on themselves. I wrote a much longer reply but decided that arguing this topic here is probably not

> But the pro-gun lobby in the US are bringing all of this on themselves. I wrote a much longer reply but decided that arguing this topic here is probably not appropriate. Suffice it to say that the notion that the "pro-gun lobby" is in any way opposed to safe ownership of guns or supports mass shootings or other criminal gun violence is absurd.

DanBC 9y ago
One of the most vocal pro-gun owners on HN would repeatedly make posts supporting mass murder whenever the topic of laws to reduce murder by gun were discussed. He'd say that gun owners would kill many people if guns were made illegal. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11604135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11604135 > And let's be clear, in this putative Civil War 2.0, we're threatening to kill gun-grabbers wholesale and retail, with guns being one of the least effective means when compared to tactics like killing Blue cities. People kill other people, guns are inanimate objects. There are like 15 posts very similar to this, although some are flagged.
- eropple 9y ago
  'hga was also the poster who was banned for (too late, IMO) telling a Jewish person to "self-deport" because he didn't want them--you know, (((them)))--in his country. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13056816 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13056816 He offered elsewhere a clearly reasonable return to the "pre-1965 demographics of the US." And so very positively spoke of "moving past the concept of equality before the law." And he isn't alone. There are some real scary correlations between the gun-fetishists--and I say that having grown up around firearms; I am not scared of them any more than I am scared of any other recklessly used tool with a toxic culture surrounding them--and generally toxic and antisocial worldviews. But the causation is not the guns, to be clear; the machismo-driven culture that leads to the guns is the cause.
luma 9y ago
Except when sensible restrictions on gun buying are propsed, that same lobby loses their mind and immediately opposes it. The NRA is no longer a sporting association, they are a far-right political lobby and are finally being recognized as such. They can change this and get back to their original mission, or continue their current collision course with the rest of America who want sensible gun policy.
- mieseratte 9y ago
  > Except when sensible restrictions on gun buying are propsed Because every "compromise" gets turned into something else to be attacked. That "Gun show loophole" was an explicit concession, that is something offered in compromise, is now being turned into something to be attacked and revoked. There is no "compromise" - the goal is ban and confiscation. We've seen it time and time again. How many times must one put their hand on the iron before they realize it burns?
  - kybernetikos 9y ago
    > There is no "compromise" - the goal is ban and confiscation. We've seen it time and time again. What makes you say this? Even in heavy gun control countries, some forms of shooting (e.g. pest control, hunting, target) and gun ownership are still generally legal. Exactly what gets made legal and illegal is precisely what is being debated, but I'd be incredibly surprised if you ended up with total ban and confiscation. I think a compromise is exactly what everyone wants.
    - Chaebixi 9y ago
      > but I'd be incredibly surprised if you ended up with total ban and confiscation. Haven't some heavy gun control regimes in the US ended up as de-facto total bans? IIRC, one city "allowed" legal gun ownership (or maybe just legal handgun ownership), but it required police approval, which was almost never granted.
      - jkaplowitz 9y ago
        You've mostly described NYC's approach to concealed carry permits. But it's quite possible for a NYC resident to get permission to legally own a gun, use it at a shooting range, hunt with it, and have it available at home for self defense.
        mieseratte 9y ago
        Also California - while some rural counties are effectively "shall issue" the most populous counties are "may issue."
simonh 9y ago
I am in no way suggesting that the NRA, or gun owners in general support mass shootings. I am saying that if they want to keep their guns, the responsibility fall on them to come up with a regulatory regime that actually works to prevent such things happening with such appalling regularity. If the gun lobby comes up with effective regulations that preserve their interests and that also work, this problem wouldn't exist. This is their problem to fix.

DanBC 9y ago

One of the most vocal pro-gun owners on HN would repeatedly make posts supporting mass murder whenever the topic of laws to reduce murder by gun were discussed. He'd say that gun owners would kill many people if guns were made illegal. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11604135 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11604135 > And let's be clear, in this putative Civil War 2.0, we're threatening to kill gun-grabbers wholesale and retail, with guns being one of the least effective means when compared to tactics like killing Blue cities. People kill other people, guns are inanimate objects. There are like 15 posts very similar to this, although some are flagged.

eropple 9y ago
'hga was also the poster who was banned for (too late, IMO) telling a Jewish person to "self-deport" because he didn't want them--you know, (((them)))--in his country. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13056816 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13056816 He offered elsewhere a clearly reasonable return to the "pre-1965 demographics of the US." And so very positively spoke of "moving past the concept of equality before the law." And he isn't alone. There are some real scary correlations between the gun-fetishists--and I say that having grown up around firearms; I am not scared of them any more than I am scared of any other recklessly used tool with a toxic culture surrounding them--and generally toxic and antisocial worldviews. But the causation is not the guns, to be clear; the machismo-driven culture that leads to the guns is the cause.

luma 9y ago

Except when sensible restrictions on gun buying are propsed, that same lobby loses their mind and immediately opposes it. The NRA is no longer a sporting association, they are a far-right political lobby and are finally being recognized as such. They can change this and get back to their original mission, or continue their current collision course with the rest of America who want sensible gun policy.

mieseratte 9y ago
> Except when sensible restrictions on gun buying are propsed Because every "compromise" gets turned into something else to be attacked. That "Gun show loophole" was an explicit concession, that is something offered in compromise, is now being turned into something to be attacked and revoked. There is no "compromise" - the goal is ban and confiscation. We've seen it time and time again. How many times must one put their hand on the iron before they realize it burns?
- kybernetikos 9y ago
  > There is no "compromise" - the goal is ban and confiscation. We've seen it time and time again. What makes you say this? Even in heavy gun control countries, some forms of shooting (e.g. pest control, hunting, target) and gun ownership are still generally legal. Exactly what gets made legal and illegal is precisely what is being debated, but I'd be incredibly surprised if you ended up with total ban and confiscation. I think a compromise is exactly what everyone wants.
  - Chaebixi 9y ago
    > but I'd be incredibly surprised if you ended up with total ban and confiscation. Haven't some heavy gun control regimes in the US ended up as de-facto total bans? IIRC, one city "allowed" legal gun ownership (or maybe just legal handgun ownership), but it required police approval, which was almost never granted.
    - jkaplowitz 9y ago
      You've mostly described NYC's approach to concealed carry permits. But it's quite possible for a NYC resident to get permission to legally own a gun, use it at a shooting range, hunt with it, and have it available at home for self defense.
      - mieseratte 9y ago
        Also California - while some rural counties are effectively "shall issue" the most populous counties are "may issue."

simonh 9y ago

I am in no way suggesting that the NRA, or gun owners in general support mass shootings. I am saying that if they want to keep their guns, the responsibility fall on them to come up with a regulatory regime that actually works to prevent such things happening with such appalling regularity. If the gun lobby comes up with effective regulations that preserve their interests and that also work, this problem wouldn't exist. This is their problem to fix.