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> Very few ISPs can track you no matter where you physically go, as your mobile, home, and work ISPs are likely all different. And ISPs are regional, none carry

> Very few ISPs can track you no matter where you physically go, as your mobile, home, and work ISPs are likely all different. And ISPs are regional, none carry the level of threat of Facebook or Google. True, all tracking/privacy issues are bad but you can still route around Google/Facebook with simple things even such as hosts file loopbacks, browser extensions, using Firefox instead of Chrome and using different search/social networks. Google and Facebook are blockable, ISPs can never be blocked. Even with a VPN you are still going through an ISP gateway with that encrypted traffic and performing DNS lookups. This will lead to throttled bandwidth, can Google and Facebook throttle you down? Facebook/Google/etc have zero control over you if you want, ISPs always got your information. ISPs can also track entire companies now, Facebook and Google do it by individual but ISPs capture everything, you always have to connect to an ISP. The privacy overreach by ISPs is immense due to not being able to choose to be tracked, and they are lower on the service level as they are the base entry to the web. ISPs are your entry/gateway to the internet and now track you and can sell your data, Facebook/Google ride on top of that. ISPs could also crush others tracking, replace ads in place of other networks which was in the bill, and will squash any small/medium advertising networks outright. ISP tracking and privacy overreaches are definitely the biggest encroachment on internet freedom ever and much more of a problem than destination/apps built on it that you have to go to or can route around. ISPs also bought/bribed their way into this monopoly reach, they did not earn it with providing products people desire, they have local monopolies with false competition that lessen the ability of people to change providers.

ocdtrekkie 9y ago
I think you'd be surprised how much more similar Google is to these things. They absolutely bought and bribes their way into their monopoly reach, by paying to be the default on everyone's browsers, having other software bake Google Toolbar into their install wizards (later replaced by Chrome), etc. Also, given the HTTPS Everywhere push (mostly led by Google), usually only sites like Google and Facebook get to see your traffic, ISPs get cut out of most of the deal. And for most people, Google or Facebook is, in fact, their gateway to the Internet: They get everywhere they go through one of these two captive environments. Finally, telecoms are already subject to significant regulation, even with the recently repealed privacy rule, no, ISPs can't just go selling your search history, marketing by certain political groups to the contrary. (Whereas Google and Facebook both, effectively, can.) Meanwhile, tech companies have operated with little to no regulation at all, and unlike telecoms, which have a whole federal agency dedicated to regulating them, tech companies' reach isn't restrained by much outside of the FTC, which isn't even fully staffed, and definitely isn't doing their jobs.
- drawkbox 9y ago
  Any big company has to lobby a bit but the ISPs only do that and do have local monopolies with false competition so you can't really choose another competitor in many places. ISPs haven't built any market products people want to use that they will willingly give up their data for. Google and Facebook are ad networks that tracking is inherent because they are free and they make their money from ads. ISPs are for internet access and privacy, you pay them so they don't sell your data. Now they want to be Google/Facebook without building a search engine or social network. They bought their monopoly with bribes so they could become ad networks/tracking networks. People have the expectation that their data isn't being sold by their ISP currently, but they are and it is fully legal now. Google and Facebook aside, do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data?
  - ocdtrekkie 9y ago
    Google and ISPs both have monopolies, but ISPs have local monopolies and Google has global monopolies. In 2017, Google wasn't just "a" lobbyist, they were "the biggest" lobbyist, dwarfing any ISP's. When you say "Google and Facebook aside", it feels like you are literally missing the entire point... You have an elephant in your sinking boat, and you're worried about the weight of the dog.
    - drawkbox 9y ago
      We know that the companies are big and possibly seen as monopolies, the question was still unanswered though. Do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data? Do you think that is the place of an ISP? If you do like your ISP tracking and selling your private data, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think there is no place for ISPs to be evading privacy and selling your data. It isn't about competition. I expect tracking from free services I am not paying for that my data is the product. I expect tracking from companies that make their money from ad/marketing to do that. I do not expect tracking and privacy invasions from my ISP, my front door to the internet. My ISP is also not a small dog, it is a massive media company and a monopoly in addition to my provider. At least with Google/Facebook you can use DuckDuckGo/bing/etc or other social networks and block Google/Facebook if desired. I can't route around my ISP, there is no local competition and what competition there is amounts to false competition. From the FCCs own data, most people only have 1 or maybe 2 real competitive ISPs in their area and virtually no competition at 100Mbps, zero options for gigabit [1]. I can easily walk around Google and Facebook and block them, my ISP is a big big mean dog because I am paying for my privacy invasion, services that run on the internet are corgis and they are free but fun to play so they attracted people's data by providing something people want. They do both lobby but that is primarily because ISPs and others do so heavily and you must compete at that level or lose. > FCC report finds almost no broadband competition at 100Mbps speeds [1] > Even at 25Mbps, 43 percent of the US had zero ISPs or just one. [1] [1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/02/fcc-report-finds-almost-no-broadband-competition-at-100mbps-speeds/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/02/fcc-r...

ocdtrekkie 9y ago

I think you'd be surprised how much more similar Google is to these things. They absolutely bought and bribes their way into their monopoly reach, by paying to be the default on everyone's browsers, having other software bake Google Toolbar into their install wizards (later replaced by Chrome), etc. Also, given the HTTPS Everywhere push (mostly led by Google), usually only sites like Google and Facebook get to see your traffic, ISPs get cut out of most of the deal. And for most people, Google or Facebook is, in fact, their gateway to the Internet: They get everywhere they go through one of these two captive environments. Finally, telecoms are already subject to significant regulation, even with the recently repealed privacy rule, no, ISPs can't just go selling your search history, marketing by certain political groups to the contrary. (Whereas Google and Facebook both, effectively, can.) Meanwhile, tech companies have operated with little to no regulation at all, and unlike telecoms, which have a whole federal agency dedicated to regulating them, tech companies' reach isn't restrained by much outside of the FTC, which isn't even fully staffed, and definitely isn't doing their jobs.

drawkbox 9y ago
Any big company has to lobby a bit but the ISPs only do that and do have local monopolies with false competition so you can't really choose another competitor in many places. ISPs haven't built any market products people want to use that they will willingly give up their data for. Google and Facebook are ad networks that tracking is inherent because they are free and they make their money from ads. ISPs are for internet access and privacy, you pay them so they don't sell your data. Now they want to be Google/Facebook without building a search engine or social network. They bought their monopoly with bribes so they could become ad networks/tracking networks. People have the expectation that their data isn't being sold by their ISP currently, but they are and it is fully legal now. Google and Facebook aside, do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data?
- ocdtrekkie 9y ago
  Google and ISPs both have monopolies, but ISPs have local monopolies and Google has global monopolies. In 2017, Google wasn't just "a" lobbyist, they were "the biggest" lobbyist, dwarfing any ISP's. When you say "Google and Facebook aside", it feels like you are literally missing the entire point... You have an elephant in your sinking boat, and you're worried about the weight of the dog.
  - drawkbox 9y ago
    We know that the companies are big and possibly seen as monopolies, the question was still unanswered though. Do you want your ISP tracking you and selling your private data? Do you think that is the place of an ISP? If you do like your ISP tracking and selling your private data, we'll have to agree to disagree. I think there is no place for ISPs to be evading privacy and selling your data. It isn't about competition. I expect tracking from free services I am not paying for that my data is the product. I expect tracking from companies that make their money from ad/marketing to do that. I do not expect tracking and privacy invasions from my ISP, my front door to the internet. My ISP is also not a small dog, it is a massive media company and a monopoly in addition to my provider. At least with Google/Facebook you can use DuckDuckGo/bing/etc or other social networks and block Google/Facebook if desired. I can't route around my ISP, there is no local competition and what competition there is amounts to false competition. From the FCCs own data, most people only have 1 or maybe 2 real competitive ISPs in their area and virtually no competition at 100Mbps, zero options for gigabit [1]. I can easily walk around Google and Facebook and block them, my ISP is a big big mean dog because I am paying for my privacy invasion, services that run on the internet are corgis and they are free but fun to play so they attracted people's data by providing something people want. They do both lobby but that is primarily because ISPs and others do so heavily and you must compete at that level or lose. > FCC report finds almost no broadband competition at 100Mbps speeds [1] > Even at 25Mbps, 43 percent of the US had zero ISPs or just one. [1] [1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/02/fcc-report-finds-almost-no-broadband-competition-at-100mbps-speeds/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/02/fcc-r...