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You can also dump it and not miss a beat. Much harder to do with Google. Facebook is thoroughly non-essential.

jonathanyc 9y ago
Tell that to people with Android phones. Google Play Services is an opaque blob that cannot be uninstalled and is necessary for nearly all Android apps. And it is constantly uploading your location minute-by-minute to Google for use in things like their "Popular Times" card on search results and who knows what else.
- garaetjjte 9y ago
  Google location services can be disabled. And there is open Play Services reimplementation, microG.
- bitmapbrother 9y ago
  When you set up an Android phone you have the option of not using Google Services. Secondly, you can disable Google Play Services anytime you want. You can also turn off location history and tracking anytime you want so I'm not sure where you get the idea that none of these services or apps can be turned off or disabled.
  - jonathanyc 9y ago
    I am not sure what comment you think you are replying to. Google Play Services cannot be uninstalled on a stock Android phone, like I said, only disabled; and disabling it means the vast majority of Android apps won’t work, like I said. These are facts that anyone can verify for themselves; you merely claiming otherwise doesn’t change this. You also seem to be confusing Google’s various services with Google Play Services specifically.
    - joshuamorton 9y ago
      You can, however, disable the location tracking across your device pretty easily, or even just disable location history if you want other tools to be able to use your location. Yes, disabling core features of your device results in a worse user experience, this should not come as a surprise.
      - CaptSpify 9y ago
        The point is that there is no reason those features need to be dependent on Google Play Services in the first place
        joshuamorton 9y ago
        I believe there are power and compute related reasons that you actually do need there to be a central service that manages location data. And I guess at that point you could say "but then there should be a single tool that does location management for apps and location tracking should be entirely separate", but I'm not sure why that's any better than "there's one app but you can toggle off the objectionable parts in a really straightforward way". Or perhaps you mean that they could just provide raw GPS data and the app developers could handle everything else, but that too runs into power and usability issues. Android handles geocoding and reverse geocoding in relatively energy efficient (and reliable!) ways. If every app had to do its own geocoding, you'd have disparate experiences in apps. (Note that Apple does almost the same thing: there are builtin geocoder objects provided by the OS that convert from GPS to address over the network). You could make that a separate thing, but then you'd get people complaining that "none of my location based apps work even though I have GPS enabled". So I guess I'm curious what your suggestion on what they should do instead is.
        CaptSpify 9y ago
        > I believe there are power and compute related reasons that you actually do need there to be a central service that manages location data. That may be, but they could open up that service for me to run on my own server, rather than through them. > And I guess at that point you could say "but then there should be a single tool that does location management for apps and location tracking should be entirely separate", but I'm not sure why that's any better than "there's one app but you can toggle off the objectionable parts in a really straightforward way". I'm not following what you mean by this. Can you expand? > If every app had to do its own geocoding, you'd have disparate experiences in apps. And? I already have disparate experiences in apps for tons of reasons.
    - bitmapbrother 9y ago
      You can easily disable Google Play Services on ANY Android phone and that is a fact. >You also seem to be confusing Google’s various services with Google Play Services specifically. No I'm not. As I stated, Google Play Services can be disabled.
lucb1e 9y ago
On the contrary, how do you drop: - Android (iOS is the only alternative, and that's much worse in terms of openness) - Maps (OSM, Apple and others don't have the same amount of business information) - Search (I have DDG as default, but find myself returning at least once a week to google search because none of the other search engines will give good results) - Images (Bing and DDG are even more terrible at images than they are at search) - Gmail (I bet >50% of the email in the Netherlands goes to google, so many businesses and even schools outsource it there, not to mention most friends...) - Embedded analytics, maps, ads, fonts, youtube, and perhaps +1 buttons. (You can block ads, and analytics isn't too hard, but if you block all of Google you'll end up with a lot of broken websites, and you'll have to unblock it every time you want to use any of the other mentioned services) - Docs (anything else that works with real-time editing and is free to use?) - Youtube (I rest my case) On Facebook, all I would do is chat with people, which can be done using a hundred other applications as well. Groups for local info might be useful, but I find that easy enough to forfeit.
- vatueil 9y ago
  That's actually the same point the parent comment by thriftwy was making. The two of you are not in disagreement. But as for your argument, didn't you just list notable alternatives for most Google products? To the extent that the competitors may be less attractive (though plenty of people say they prefer iOS, Bing, DDG, etc.), that just emphasizes how useful Google's products are. Most of them can even be used without a Google account, too. It's strange to talk about the value Google services contribute as a bad thing. If you want to argue that value is still not worth the data they collect, that's a separate matter (and one that is logically at odds with arguing how great Google's utility is).
  - lucb1e 9y ago
    Oh, wow, I indeed misread the parent comment completely. My bad! > Most of them can even be used without a Google account, too. Sure, but that doesn't take away any tracking as far as I know. Perhaps on paper in certain jurisdictions, but I doubt it truly is thrown away. > It's strange to talk about the value Google services contribute as a bad thing. The value they provide is not a bad thing, it's how they monetize it. I think I am misinterpreting what you mean here, though.

Tell that to people with Android phones. Google Play Services is an opaque blob that cannot be uninstalled and is necessary for nearly all Android apps. And it is constantly uploading your location minute-by-minute to Google for use in things like their "Popular Times" card on search results and who knows what else.

garaetjjte 9y ago
Google location services can be disabled. And there is open Play Services reimplementation, microG.
bitmapbrother 9y ago
When you set up an Android phone you have the option of not using Google Services. Secondly, you can disable Google Play Services anytime you want. You can also turn off location history and tracking anytime you want so I'm not sure where you get the idea that none of these services or apps can be turned off or disabled.
- jonathanyc 9y ago
  I am not sure what comment you think you are replying to. Google Play Services cannot be uninstalled on a stock Android phone, like I said, only disabled; and disabling it means the vast majority of Android apps won’t work, like I said. These are facts that anyone can verify for themselves; you merely claiming otherwise doesn’t change this. You also seem to be confusing Google’s various services with Google Play Services specifically.
  - joshuamorton 9y ago
    You can, however, disable the location tracking across your device pretty easily, or even just disable location history if you want other tools to be able to use your location. Yes, disabling core features of your device results in a worse user experience, this should not come as a surprise.
    - CaptSpify 9y ago
      The point is that there is no reason those features need to be dependent on Google Play Services in the first place
      - joshuamorton 9y ago
        I believe there are power and compute related reasons that you actually do need there to be a central service that manages location data. And I guess at that point you could say "but then there should be a single tool that does location management for apps and location tracking should be entirely separate", but I'm not sure why that's any better than "there's one app but you can toggle off the objectionable parts in a really straightforward way". Or perhaps you mean that they could just provide raw GPS data and the app developers could handle everything else, but that too runs into power and usability issues. Android handles geocoding and reverse geocoding in relatively energy efficient (and reliable!) ways. If every app had to do its own geocoding, you'd have disparate experiences in apps. (Note that Apple does almost the same thing: there are builtin geocoder objects provided by the OS that convert from GPS to address over the network). You could make that a separate thing, but then you'd get people complaining that "none of my location based apps work even though I have GPS enabled". So I guess I'm curious what your suggestion on what they should do instead is.
        CaptSpify 9y ago
        > I believe there are power and compute related reasons that you actually do need there to be a central service that manages location data. That may be, but they could open up that service for me to run on my own server, rather than through them. > And I guess at that point you could say "but then there should be a single tool that does location management for apps and location tracking should be entirely separate", but I'm not sure why that's any better than "there's one app but you can toggle off the objectionable parts in a really straightforward way". I'm not following what you mean by this. Can you expand? > If every app had to do its own geocoding, you'd have disparate experiences in apps. And? I already have disparate experiences in apps for tons of reasons.
  - bitmapbrother 9y ago
    You can easily disable Google Play Services on ANY Android phone and that is a fact. >You also seem to be confusing Google’s various services with Google Play Services specifically. No I'm not. As I stated, Google Play Services can be disabled.

lucb1e 9y ago

On the contrary, how do you drop: - Android (iOS is the only alternative, and that's much worse in terms of openness) - Maps (OSM, Apple and others don't have the same amount of business information) - Search (I have DDG as default, but find myself returning at least once a week to google search because none of the other search engines will give good results) - Images (Bing and DDG are even more terrible at images than they are at search) - Gmail (I bet >50% of the email in the Netherlands goes to google, so many businesses and even schools outsource it there, not to mention most friends...) - Embedded analytics, maps, ads, fonts, youtube, and perhaps +1 buttons. (You can block ads, and analytics isn't too hard, but if you block all of Google you'll end up with a lot of broken websites, and you'll have to unblock it every time you want to use any of the other mentioned services) - Docs (anything else that works with real-time editing and is free to use?) - Youtube (I rest my case) On Facebook, all I would do is chat with people, which can be done using a hundred other applications as well. Groups for local info might be useful, but I find that easy enough to forfeit.

vatueil 9y ago
That's actually the same point the parent comment by thriftwy was making. The two of you are not in disagreement. But as for your argument, didn't you just list notable alternatives for most Google products? To the extent that the competitors may be less attractive (though plenty of people say they prefer iOS, Bing, DDG, etc.), that just emphasizes how useful Google's products are. Most of them can even be used without a Google account, too. It's strange to talk about the value Google services contribute as a bad thing. If you want to argue that value is still not worth the data they collect, that's a separate matter (and one that is logically at odds with arguing how great Google's utility is).
- lucb1e 9y ago
  Oh, wow, I indeed misread the parent comment completely. My bad! > Most of them can even be used without a Google account, too. Sure, but that doesn't take away any tracking as far as I know. Perhaps on paper in certain jurisdictions, but I doubt it truly is thrown away. > It's strange to talk about the value Google services contribute as a bad thing. The value they provide is not a bad thing, it's how they monetize it. I think I am misinterpreting what you mean here, though.