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It's a lot simpler to avoid Google though. I've been using DuckDuckGo for a while now and the switch was simple. There's no network effect like with Facebook,

It's a lot simpler to avoid Google though. I've been using DuckDuckGo for a while now and the switch was simple. There's no network effect like with Facebook, hence less ennui about it.

mudil 9y ago
They still have their cookies and follow your every move, especially if you have android phone.
- ReverseCold 9y ago
  Note about Google-Android phones: how long you use each app and when is tracked. To avoid this, use a custom rom without GApps. You can also "turn off" this "feature" from some menu online, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't actually stop data collection.
gt_ 9y ago
>seems Google is just more self-aware, which can change at any time. This is separate from their potential, and the potential is what matters here. We know Facebook had the potential to do damage for years, but we don't know how much damage they have done. As for what a company "seems", that is a sum of marketing and PR.
smt88 9y ago
Google is also tracking you via emails sent to/from Gmail, AdSense scripts, free CDNs, Android, etc. I find Facebook to be easier to avoid, though more costly in terms of my happiness
dijit 9y ago
I feel like this is at least slightly disingenuous. Sure, your friends keep you hooked on FB but there are other methods of communication.. Even if they're FB owned (like whatsapp). But google owns the most dominant browser right now, they're spidered into most websites using their analytics engine. They handle more email than the next 5 providers combined, and they have the most dominant mobile OS on the market.
- wutbrodo 9y ago
  Does any part of that address his point though? Almost every single one of those things you mentioned is part of some federated system, which means you can be the only person in the world not using it and not have your usage affected too heavily. Your friends can include you in text groups no matter what carrier and phone OS you use, they can include your email even if your mail server is located under your couch, you can visit websites even if you use Firefox or Safari or IE or Opera or Iceweasel or Edge or Dolphin or.... By contrast, you can't decide to be the only one in your friend group without a Facebook acct and still be included in eg event planning and photo sharing, unless your friends make th extra effort to keep a separate channel open for you. That's what the term network effects _means_. (Yes, I'm entirely aware that the canned response to this is "they're not your real friends then" or "get better friends"; I personally don't use Facebook for anything but event planning/accepting and the occasional communication with an extended member of the family without having to go through a chain of getting people's numbers. But as to the people that don't recognize any potential benefit to a tool like FB for coordinating meaningful social events, I can't help but wonder if they just have very tiny social circles. This isn't a bad thing by any means, but it's bizarre to assume that that's how everyone socializes)
  - dijit 9y ago
    "everything here is federated" is not rebutting my point at all. Sure, you can host your own website without GA, but then you're in a circle of 1. Unless you don't email people with googlemail accounts, don't use GA websites, avoid android and anybody who uses it and disallow chrome browsers from accessing your content, then you're still kinda in googles reach. Which is far more invasive than facebook, facebook at least requires you to actually be an active participant in a system that at its core is about telling people about yourself. Google wants this data and is willing to "pay" for it with free services.
lucb1e 9y ago
It's the opposite for me. I don't use Facebook or any of their subs (like instagram), but google is very difficult to get rid of: youtube and android have no viable replacements, maps has some unique selling points, and I notice that I even return to the search multiple times a week because I can't find something using ddg, bing, or another search engine. And of course half my email ends up in gmail inboxes because it's either to friends (gmail) or companies (google apps for business, or whatever it's called -- see mx records of half the companies you deal with). Edit: oh yeah and of course analytics + youtube embedding + ads + like button (when still in use) + google maps embedding makes it very difficult to get around as well, even outside of directly using their products yourself...

It's a lot simpler to avoid Google though. I've been using DuckDuckGo for a while now and the switch was simple. There's no network effect like with Facebook, hence less ennui about it.

mudil 9y ago

They still have their cookies and follow your every move, especially if you have android phone.

ReverseCold 9y ago
Note about Google-Android phones: how long you use each app and when is tracked. To avoid this, use a custom rom without GApps. You can also "turn off" this "feature" from some menu online, but I'm pretty sure that doesn't actually stop data collection.

gt_ 9y ago

>seems Google is just more self-aware, which can change at any time. This is separate from their potential, and the potential is what matters here. We know Facebook had the potential to do damage for years, but we don't know how much damage they have done. As for what a company "seems", that is a sum of marketing and PR.

smt88 9y ago

Google is also tracking you via emails sent to/from Gmail, AdSense scripts, free CDNs, Android, etc. I find Facebook to be easier to avoid, though more costly in terms of my happiness

dijit 9y ago

I feel like this is at least slightly disingenuous. Sure, your friends keep you hooked on FB but there are other methods of communication.. Even if they're FB owned (like whatsapp). But google owns the most dominant browser right now, they're spidered into most websites using their analytics engine. They handle more email than the next 5 providers combined, and they have the most dominant mobile OS on the market.

wutbrodo 9y ago
Does any part of that address his point though? Almost every single one of those things you mentioned is part of some federated system, which means you can be the only person in the world not using it and not have your usage affected too heavily. Your friends can include you in text groups no matter what carrier and phone OS you use, they can include your email even if your mail server is located under your couch, you can visit websites even if you use Firefox or Safari or IE or Opera or Iceweasel or Edge or Dolphin or.... By contrast, you can't decide to be the only one in your friend group without a Facebook acct and still be included in eg event planning and photo sharing, unless your friends make th extra effort to keep a separate channel open for you. That's what the term network effects _means_. (Yes, I'm entirely aware that the canned response to this is "they're not your real friends then" or "get better friends"; I personally don't use Facebook for anything but event planning/accepting and the occasional communication with an extended member of the family without having to go through a chain of getting people's numbers. But as to the people that don't recognize any potential benefit to a tool like FB for coordinating meaningful social events, I can't help but wonder if they just have very tiny social circles. This isn't a bad thing by any means, but it's bizarre to assume that that's how everyone socializes)
- dijit 9y ago
  "everything here is federated" is not rebutting my point at all. Sure, you can host your own website without GA, but then you're in a circle of 1. Unless you don't email people with googlemail accounts, don't use GA websites, avoid android and anybody who uses it and disallow chrome browsers from accessing your content, then you're still kinda in googles reach. Which is far more invasive than facebook, facebook at least requires you to actually be an active participant in a system that at its core is about telling people about yourself. Google wants this data and is willing to "pay" for it with free services.

lucb1e 9y ago

It's the opposite for me. I don't use Facebook or any of their subs (like instagram), but google is very difficult to get rid of: youtube and android have no viable replacements, maps has some unique selling points, and I notice that I even return to the search multiple times a week because I can't find something using ddg, bing, or another search engine. And of course half my email ends up in gmail inboxes because it's either to friends (gmail) or companies (google apps for business, or whatever it's called -- see mx records of half the companies you deal with). Edit: oh yeah and of course analytics + youtube embedding + ads + like button (when still in use) + google maps embedding makes it very difficult to get around as well, even outside of directly using their products yourself...