4 ms·

No matter how much the society at large wants to tiptoe the subject, the concept of race has never fell into disuse wherever facts really matters, such as in he

by nukeop 9y ago

No matter how much the society at large wants to tiptoe the subject, the concept of race has never fell into disuse wherever facts really matters, such as in healthcare or the legal system.

pavlov 9y ago
I don’t understand your examples. How does race affect medical treatment of an individual? Should people be treated differently in the eyes of the law depending on skin color?
- throwaway538 9y ago
  Different disease prevalence. Different response to drugs. Jews for example more likely to have Tay Sachs disease. Sickle cell disease affects blacks disproportionately.
  - nostalgeek 9y ago
    > Jews for example more likely to have Tay Sachs disease. Sure but it's not because they practice Judaism. And since one can convert to judaism, I've never heard about someone who can convert his genes to "jew genes". > Sickle cell disease affects blacks disproportionately. Sure but it isn't necessary because their skin are dark, when you can find people from Sri Lanka or India who have a skin blacker than African people yet they don't have this disease prevalence. See what you are doing here? you are mixing up genetics which can be used to establish statistical facts about gene expressions, and semantics AKA social construct. And this sort of sophism can easily be exploited to make broad generalizations about the behavior of arbitrary racial groups you've established under pretense of science. That's why the notion of race for humans is completely absurd. What race are people living in Madagascar? most of them aren't negro looking, what race the Yemeni? the afghans? they don't look like Arabs...
    - nukeop 9y ago
      Judaism is not a race, being black means more than just a different skin color, you're intentionally trying to derail the discussion.
      - nostalgeek 9y ago
        > Judaism is not a race, being black means more than just a different skin color, you're intentionally trying to derail the discussion. no I'm not. What does being black means then? and why bring "jews" into a discussion with race? If we're going to talk about race scientifically using these words, well you'd better have solid arguments as to why you use "jews" and "black" as race discriminant. I'd also like to talk about the fact that most European jews are convert from the medieval era and have very little to do with the "Semites" who lived in what is now Israel 2000 years ago. So what race are you talking about?
        nukeop 9y ago
        >no I'm not. What does being black means then? and why bring "jews" into a discussion with race? Because Jews have different risks of falling ill to many diseases than people of other races. You are still trying to conflate race with religion which makes it clear that you're here to derail the discussion.
        Erlangolem 9y ago
        Safartic or Ashkenazi? Both are Jews, only one is st risk of passing on Tay-Sachs. Which is the “race” hm?
        nostalgeek 9y ago
        > Because Jews have different risks of falling ill to many diseases than people of other races. You are still trying to conflate race with religion which makes it clear that you're here to derail the discussion. quoting myself: > I'd also like to talk about the fact that most European jews are convert from the medieval era and have very little to do with the "Semites" who lived in what is now Israel 2000 years ago. So what race are you talking about? You didn't answer about "blacks", what are blacks?
- pjc50 9y ago
  There are some situations where both illnesses and treatments behave differently depending on race-linked genetics; sickle-cell aenemia vs malaria is the famous one, but there's a long tail of medicines that are slightly less effective in nonwhite people because of who happened to be in the clinical trials.
  - pavlov 9y ago
    How strong is the link to race? There is a great number of diseases and conditions affected by genes that have no correlation with skin pigment. Swedes and Finns have quite different profiles of hereditary diseases. Are Finns a different race based on that? In the 1930s, Finnish scientists spent a lot of time “proving” to their German counterparts that Finns are an Aryan group rather than part of the Mongolic race. That seems completely absurd today. Hopefully in 80 years we’ll be able to say the same about present-day race obsessions.
- imron 9y ago
  People of different races are predisposed to different diseases. If you see medical care as going beyond just treatment but also inclusive of education and preventative measures, then if you don't factor in race you will be doing a disservice to members of races that are more susceptible to certain diseases.
  - JohnStrangeII 9y ago
    There are no "members of races", there are different genetic indicators that can be clustered and ordered in different ways. Surely if someone has a (measured) propensity towards a certain disease might have to be tested earlier or treated slightly differently. A doctor's subjective perception of phenotypical 'race' is not the right diagnostic tool. Questions about ancestors and diseases in the family can very well be, if they are supported by statistical evidence.
- nukeop 9y ago
  People of different races have different metabolisms and physical characteristics, making them more susceptible to some illnesses but not others, and respond to different medicines differently. This is also important when considering the impact of biology on forensic methods in legal system. Race is also a good predictor of other factors.
  - nostalgeek 9y ago
    > People of different races have different metabolisms and physical characteristics how many human races? if you're going to talk about categories of humans you need to precisely define them. So how many human races known exactly?
- rout39574 9y ago
  Race is a predictor of susceptibility to a wide variety of diseases.
zeth___ 9y ago
Because race is a very good predictor of class in the US. Are you poor? Probably black. Are you in trouble with the legal system? Probably poor -> black. Can you afford good health care and preventive medicine? Probably not poor -> probably not black. Funnily enough this also explains why redneck whites are looked down on by everyone else.

by nukeop 9y ago

No matter how much the society at large wants to tiptoe the subject, the concept of race has never fell into disuse wherever facts really matters, such as in healthcare or the legal system.

pavlov 9y ago

I don’t understand your examples. How does race affect medical treatment of an individual? Should people be treated differently in the eyes of the law depending on skin color?

throwaway538 9y ago
Different disease prevalence. Different response to drugs. Jews for example more likely to have Tay Sachs disease. Sickle cell disease affects blacks disproportionately.
- nostalgeek 9y ago
  > Jews for example more likely to have Tay Sachs disease. Sure but it's not because they practice Judaism. And since one can convert to judaism, I've never heard about someone who can convert his genes to "jew genes". > Sickle cell disease affects blacks disproportionately. Sure but it isn't necessary because their skin are dark, when you can find people from Sri Lanka or India who have a skin blacker than African people yet they don't have this disease prevalence. See what you are doing here? you are mixing up genetics which can be used to establish statistical facts about gene expressions, and semantics AKA social construct. And this sort of sophism can easily be exploited to make broad generalizations about the behavior of arbitrary racial groups you've established under pretense of science. That's why the notion of race for humans is completely absurd. What race are people living in Madagascar? most of them aren't negro looking, what race the Yemeni? the afghans? they don't look like Arabs...
  - nukeop 9y ago
    Judaism is not a race, being black means more than just a different skin color, you're intentionally trying to derail the discussion.
    - nostalgeek 9y ago
      > Judaism is not a race, being black means more than just a different skin color, you're intentionally trying to derail the discussion. no I'm not. What does being black means then? and why bring "jews" into a discussion with race? If we're going to talk about race scientifically using these words, well you'd better have solid arguments as to why you use "jews" and "black" as race discriminant. I'd also like to talk about the fact that most European jews are convert from the medieval era and have very little to do with the "Semites" who lived in what is now Israel 2000 years ago. So what race are you talking about?
      - nukeop 9y ago
        >no I'm not. What does being black means then? and why bring "jews" into a discussion with race? Because Jews have different risks of falling ill to many diseases than people of other races. You are still trying to conflate race with religion which makes it clear that you're here to derail the discussion.
        Erlangolem 9y ago
        Safartic or Ashkenazi? Both are Jews, only one is st risk of passing on Tay-Sachs. Which is the “race” hm?
        nostalgeek 9y ago
        > Because Jews have different risks of falling ill to many diseases than people of other races. You are still trying to conflate race with religion which makes it clear that you're here to derail the discussion. quoting myself: > I'd also like to talk about the fact that most European jews are convert from the medieval era and have very little to do with the "Semites" who lived in what is now Israel 2000 years ago. So what race are you talking about? You didn't answer about "blacks", what are blacks?
pjc50 9y ago
There are some situations where both illnesses and treatments behave differently depending on race-linked genetics; sickle-cell aenemia vs malaria is the famous one, but there's a long tail of medicines that are slightly less effective in nonwhite people because of who happened to be in the clinical trials.
- pavlov 9y ago
  How strong is the link to race? There is a great number of diseases and conditions affected by genes that have no correlation with skin pigment. Swedes and Finns have quite different profiles of hereditary diseases. Are Finns a different race based on that? In the 1930s, Finnish scientists spent a lot of time “proving” to their German counterparts that Finns are an Aryan group rather than part of the Mongolic race. That seems completely absurd today. Hopefully in 80 years we’ll be able to say the same about present-day race obsessions.
imron 9y ago
People of different races are predisposed to different diseases. If you see medical care as going beyond just treatment but also inclusive of education and preventative measures, then if you don't factor in race you will be doing a disservice to members of races that are more susceptible to certain diseases.
- JohnStrangeII 9y ago
  There are no "members of races", there are different genetic indicators that can be clustered and ordered in different ways. Surely if someone has a (measured) propensity towards a certain disease might have to be tested earlier or treated slightly differently. A doctor's subjective perception of phenotypical 'race' is not the right diagnostic tool. Questions about ancestors and diseases in the family can very well be, if they are supported by statistical evidence.
nukeop 9y ago
People of different races have different metabolisms and physical characteristics, making them more susceptible to some illnesses but not others, and respond to different medicines differently. This is also important when considering the impact of biology on forensic methods in legal system. Race is also a good predictor of other factors.
- nostalgeek 9y ago
  > People of different races have different metabolisms and physical characteristics how many human races? if you're going to talk about categories of humans you need to precisely define them. So how many human races known exactly?
rout39574 9y ago
Race is a predictor of susceptibility to a wide variety of diseases.

zeth___ 9y ago

Because race is a very good predictor of class in the US. Are you poor? Probably black. Are you in trouble with the legal system? Probably poor -> black. Can you afford good health care and preventive medicine? Probably not poor -> probably not black. Funnily enough this also explains why redneck whites are looked down on by everyone else.