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I think this is good news. Advanced technologies like chip production must not be the domain of only part of the world. Also, I hope the EU would also take a si

by madez 9y ago

I think this is good news. Advanced technologies like chip production must not be the domain of only part of the world. Also, I hope the EU would also take a similar stance so it would be possible to buy European chips. That the US sees this technology as a matter of national security is all the more a reason to push for more independence to stay sovereign.

lettergram 9y ago
Lol... Ugh the EU in itself was an exercise in becoming a non-independent, non-sivereign state for all parties involved. It's why the U.K. peaced out. Not saying, it wouldn't be good to have chip production there. On the contrary, I support the idea. However, I don't really think the EU is about independence.
- madez 9y ago
  If one can let go of nationalism, one can see that the EU is about independence. It's not about your governments Independence, though, but of the Bloc as a whole. After all, national governments are just a tool in a big machinery. Tools can be enhanced or replaced, if there is something better. So far, I like a lot of what the EU is doing.
  - NicoJuicy 9y ago
    The EU had very solid principles to begin with. Too bad along the way they left some behind and broke some... ( Ugh... Humans)
  - mobilefriendly 9y ago
    It is a strange independence the demands the destruction of local democratic governance.
    - matthewmacleod 9y ago
      Not really. Independence is an axis like any other, and trading it off in some areas can result in a greater benefit at the the scale of all members.
      - RobertoG 9y ago
        It's a pity that, as the economic data shows, this is not the case.
    - barrkel 9y ago
      Subsidiarity is a core principle of the EU, FWIW. There's another way to look at freedom: freedom from, rather than freedom to. Governments are generally instituted to ensure the former rather than the latter. They put restraints on some freedoms to increase other freedoms. Thus, for example, the specific standards that goods are produced to and services are provided at may be set centrally, removing freedom to vary at a local level, but adding freedom to sell across the whole union with very low barriers to trade (i.e. freedom from variance in standards). Since freedom to vary on standards at the local level frequently ends up with beggar-thy-neighbour policies, or anti-competitive regulations, it's not a bad trade.
      - RobertoG 9y ago
        Freedom from democratic governance sounds like a suspicious kind of freedom to me.
        yorwba 9y ago
        EU officials are appointed either by the democratically elected governments of the member states of by the democratically elected European Parliament. Unless you reject all kinds of representative democracy, the EU seems pretty democratic to me. And most EU states are only democratic in the representative sense anyway.
        RobertoG 9y ago
        In theory, but the reality of the issue is very different. The European Parliament is all powerful except for the important things. The real power is in the hands of the commission, which, in practice, it's not more than an international forum, where, as in all the international forums, the will of the stronger states is the law. The state members are bond by treaties that, in practice, are impossible to change by the population and that, in fact, are used to limit what the population could choose. In theory, the EU could be a democratic institution, but there is not the will for that, quite the opposite, in my opinion. The population is slowing awaking to those realities and the relevant institutions would do well addressing all those problems before is too late.
- matthewmacleod 9y ago
  That’s not really true. One of the many goals of the EU was to provide a unified economy that had the ability to compete on a level playing field with other large powers. That is a form of independence, in the sense that member states can trade some of their individual independence for a greater ability to be independent from other global competitors as a union. For what it’s worth, The UK’s departure will either result in a country that’s either an EU member in all but name, or a shining example of why leaving was bad.
zimmerfrei 9y ago
The European Commission is actually trying to address that problem right now, at least for high-performance computing (which includes autonomous cars): https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/news/european-processor-initiative-consortium-develop-microprocessors-future-supercomputers https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/news/european-... A budget of 120 million euros is quite low though.
- madez 9y ago
  Interesting link. Thanks for pointing that out. > Guarantee that a significant part of that technology is European I wish they instead wrote "Guarantee that no significant part of that technology is not European".
Avamander 9y ago
Speaking of Europe not producing certain things, Estonia will force a 20% tax on every foreign shipment (not sure if it's an EU directive) to "protect local businesses", ugh, no European business sells these components without asking huge amounts (and aren't the same Chinese components with 10x markup) of money.

by madez 9y ago

lettergram 9y ago

Lol... Ugh the EU in itself was an exercise in becoming a non-independent, non-sivereign state for all parties involved. It's why the U.K. peaced out. Not saying, it wouldn't be good to have chip production there. On the contrary, I support the idea. However, I don't really think the EU is about independence.

madez 9y ago
If one can let go of nationalism, one can see that the EU is about independence. It's not about your governments Independence, though, but of the Bloc as a whole. After all, national governments are just a tool in a big machinery. Tools can be enhanced or replaced, if there is something better. So far, I like a lot of what the EU is doing.
- NicoJuicy 9y ago
  The EU had very solid principles to begin with. Too bad along the way they left some behind and broke some... ( Ugh... Humans)
- mobilefriendly 9y ago
  It is a strange independence the demands the destruction of local democratic governance.
  - matthewmacleod 9y ago
    Not really. Independence is an axis like any other, and trading it off in some areas can result in a greater benefit at the the scale of all members.
    - RobertoG 9y ago
      It's a pity that, as the economic data shows, this is not the case.
  - barrkel 9y ago
    Subsidiarity is a core principle of the EU, FWIW. There's another way to look at freedom: freedom from, rather than freedom to. Governments are generally instituted to ensure the former rather than the latter. They put restraints on some freedoms to increase other freedoms. Thus, for example, the specific standards that goods are produced to and services are provided at may be set centrally, removing freedom to vary at a local level, but adding freedom to sell across the whole union with very low barriers to trade (i.e. freedom from variance in standards). Since freedom to vary on standards at the local level frequently ends up with beggar-thy-neighbour policies, or anti-competitive regulations, it's not a bad trade.
    - RobertoG 9y ago
      Freedom from democratic governance sounds like a suspicious kind of freedom to me.
      - yorwba 9y ago
        EU officials are appointed either by the democratically elected governments of the member states of by the democratically elected European Parliament. Unless you reject all kinds of representative democracy, the EU seems pretty democratic to me. And most EU states are only democratic in the representative sense anyway.
        RobertoG 9y ago
        In theory, but the reality of the issue is very different. The European Parliament is all powerful except for the important things. The real power is in the hands of the commission, which, in practice, it's not more than an international forum, where, as in all the international forums, the will of the stronger states is the law. The state members are bond by treaties that, in practice, are impossible to change by the population and that, in fact, are used to limit what the population could choose. In theory, the EU could be a democratic institution, but there is not the will for that, quite the opposite, in my opinion. The population is slowing awaking to those realities and the relevant institutions would do well addressing all those problems before is too late.
matthewmacleod 9y ago
That’s not really true. One of the many goals of the EU was to provide a unified economy that had the ability to compete on a level playing field with other large powers. That is a form of independence, in the sense that member states can trade some of their individual independence for a greater ability to be independent from other global competitors as a union. For what it’s worth, The UK’s departure will either result in a country that’s either an EU member in all but name, or a shining example of why leaving was bad.

zimmerfrei 9y ago

The European Commission is actually trying to address that problem right now, at least for high-performance computing (which includes autonomous cars): https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/news/european-processor-initiative-consortium-develop-microprocessors-future-supercomputers https://ec.europa.eu/digital-single-market/en/news/european-... A budget of 120 million euros is quite low though.

madez 9y ago
Interesting link. Thanks for pointing that out. > Guarantee that a significant part of that technology is European I wish they instead wrote "Guarantee that no significant part of that technology is not European".

Avamander 9y ago

Speaking of Europe not producing certain things, Estonia will force a 20% tax on every foreign shipment (not sure if it's an EU directive) to "protect local businesses", ugh, no European business sells these components without asking huge amounts (and aren't the same Chinese components with 10x markup) of money.