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I don't think the issue is Chinese culture, but it is Chinese leadership--which, admittedly, has encouraged and created a culture of concerning nationalism and

I don't think the issue is Chinese culture, but it is Chinese leadership--which, admittedly, has encouraged and created a culture of concerning nationalism and subservience to authoritarians with no respect for human rights or rule of law. If you look back in contemporary Chinese history, there are several episodes where influential groups were openly supporting a more democratic society. It wasn't Chinese culture that stopped them. It was Mao, the CCP, the tanks in Tienamen Square, and the more recently the ubiquitous propaganda and censorship. I agree that the CCP is an enemy we should we wary of. But we should be just as wary of writing off any large group of fellow humans as enemies. The enemy is the brainwashers themselves, not their victims.

michaelmrose 9y ago
The society that gives birth to the autocrats is complicit and for the most part welcoming of its values. It's a mistake to merely think of them as brainwashed. They rule their society still because their values and the values of the people are aligned. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/09 http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2... /why_drivers_in_china_intentionally_kill_the_pedestrians_they_hit_china_s.html It's a pragmatic society that believes in authoritarian rule because they believe it works and because the morality and ideals always come after pragmatism for them. They themselves and not the rulers that temporarily maintain control are our irreconcilable enemies.
- jpttsn 9y ago
  Harsh. What about postwar Germany?
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Al-Khwarizmi 9y ago
It wasn't Chinese culture that stopped them. It was Mao, the CCP, the tanks in Tienamen Square, and the more recently the ubiquitous propaganda and censorship (...) the brainwashers (...) In the last four decades, the poverty rate in China has fallen from over 90% to below 10%. http://iresearch.worldbank.org/PovcalNet/images/ChinaSpecialNoteChart1.png http://iresearch.worldbank.org/PovcalNet/images/ChinaSpecial... Hundreds of millions of people have been lifted out of poverty, most people have seen a radical improvement in their standard of living in the last decades. Do you really think the main reason why they don't rise against their government is "propaganda" and "brainwash"? How many well-informed and not-brainwashed people would choose to support a revolution (with the associated risk of violence, chaos and deaths) when the statu quo is a fast, steady and practically unrivaled increase in everyday living conditions, even if the government is authoritarian? I don't think many would, regardless of whether their culture were Chinese or Western.
- kenny87 9y ago
  well said, to the contrary, it appears we -- americans/europeans -- are the brainwashed ones. instead of finding common cause we our fellow human beings we all too easily follow our leadership's narrative that the people of China are our enemies.
  - michaelmrose 9y ago
    We have plenty of common causes say fighting cancer. We can link arms, sing songs, fight cancer then go back to trying to dominate each other globally and establish our mutually incompatible values as the global norm. Playing this off as Americans being brain washed is just naive. They are literally our enemies unless you have conveniently forgotten Korea.
- chibg10 9y ago
  Who said anything about revolution? Mainland Chinese hold unnatural views on many issues that are shared essentially nowhere else in the world and are easily traceable back to the CCP's interests and propaganda. China's claim to Taiwan is the same claim that the UK has to Australia. Most mainland Chinese still think Falun Gong was a bunch of crazies and are unaware of the government crackdown of them. The details of the Tienamen Square Massacre are not well known. Mao is still a hero in the eyes of hundreds of millions. Mainland Chinese are mostly unaware of the human rights abuses occurring among Tibetans and Uighurs. The continuing extreme mistrust of the Japanese hard to explain in a world where Israel is friendly with German--unless you have an authoritarian power seeking to whip up nationalistic support to maintain its control over society. These views (literally forced upon them, in a collective sense) result them condoning massive human rights violations, mercantilist trade policies, increased risks of war and conflict with major powers, and other societal negatives. Those risks are exclusively attributable to the CCP, whereas economic growth in a country like China likely does not exclusively require said rulers.

michaelmrose 9y ago

The society that gives birth to the autocrats is complicit and for the most part welcoming of its values. It's a mistake to merely think of them as brainwashed. They rule their society still because their values and the values of the people are aligned. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2015/09 http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/foreigners/2... /why_drivers_in_china_intentionally_kill_the_pedestrians_they_hit_china_s.html It's a pragmatic society that believes in authoritarian rule because they believe it works and because the morality and ideals always come after pragmatism for them. They themselves and not the rulers that temporarily maintain control are our irreconcilable enemies.

jpttsn 9y ago
Harsh. What about postwar Germany?
- deleted 9y ago
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deleted 9y ago
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Al-Khwarizmi 9y ago

It wasn't Chinese culture that stopped them. It was Mao, the CCP, the tanks in Tienamen Square, and the more recently the ubiquitous propaganda and censorship (...) the brainwashers (...) In the last four decades, the poverty rate in China has fallen from over 90% to below 10%. http://iresearch.worldbank.org/PovcalNet/images/ChinaSpecialNoteChart1.png http://iresearch.worldbank.org/PovcalNet/images/ChinaSpecial... Hundreds of millions of people have been lifted out of poverty, most people have seen a radical improvement in their standard of living in the last decades. Do you really think the main reason why they don't rise against their government is "propaganda" and "brainwash"? How many well-informed and not-brainwashed people would choose to support a revolution (with the associated risk of violence, chaos and deaths) when the statu quo is a fast, steady and practically unrivaled increase in everyday living conditions, even if the government is authoritarian? I don't think many would, regardless of whether their culture were Chinese or Western.

kenny87 9y ago
well said, to the contrary, it appears we -- americans/europeans -- are the brainwashed ones. instead of finding common cause we our fellow human beings we all too easily follow our leadership's narrative that the people of China are our enemies.
- michaelmrose 9y ago
  We have plenty of common causes say fighting cancer. We can link arms, sing songs, fight cancer then go back to trying to dominate each other globally and establish our mutually incompatible values as the global norm. Playing this off as Americans being brain washed is just naive. They are literally our enemies unless you have conveniently forgotten Korea.
chibg10 9y ago
Who said anything about revolution? Mainland Chinese hold unnatural views on many issues that are shared essentially nowhere else in the world and are easily traceable back to the CCP's interests and propaganda. China's claim to Taiwan is the same claim that the UK has to Australia. Most mainland Chinese still think Falun Gong was a bunch of crazies and are unaware of the government crackdown of them. The details of the Tienamen Square Massacre are not well known. Mao is still a hero in the eyes of hundreds of millions. Mainland Chinese are mostly unaware of the human rights abuses occurring among Tibetans and Uighurs. The continuing extreme mistrust of the Japanese hard to explain in a world where Israel is friendly with German--unless you have an authoritarian power seeking to whip up nationalistic support to maintain its control over society. These views (literally forced upon them, in a collective sense) result them condoning massive human rights violations, mercantilist trade policies, increased risks of war and conflict with major powers, and other societal negatives. Those risks are exclusively attributable to the CCP, whereas economic growth in a country like China likely does not exclusively require said rulers.