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Chinese citizen here. A few points that I want to make after reading some comments: 1. I would be personally offended if anyone or any organization lists Tibet

Chinese citizen here. A few points that I want to make after reading some comments: 1. I would be personally offended if anyone or any organization lists Tibet as a country. 2. Lots of Chinese people would be offended too by this. Reasons for 1 and 2: - It is a piece of wrong information - The wrong information directly contradicts what is considered basic knowledge in China - That basic knowledge happens to be on the topic of sovereignty - Chinese people care a lot of sovereignty (see https://github.com/matomo-org/matomo/issues/6006 https://github.com/matomo-org/matomo/issues/6006) Why do Chinese people care so much about sovereignty? Culture and history. It is the same question as: - Why do Americans care so much about freedom of speech, democracy and race equality? - Why do Japanese people care so much about respect and etiquette? Now addressing the obvious issue, that some people support the idea of Tibet becoming independent and they should be free to express their ideas. Yes, they are free to say so, but there are two things to keep in mind: - Opinions are not facts, you can support whatever you want, but don't say it as a fact like "Tibet is a country as of 24 March, 2018." That is not the right thing to do. - If you choose to freely express your opinions or spread false information, you will face consequences for them. For example, a PR firm would likely tell you that expressing such opinions would results in negative brand image and boycott in China. In addition, saying something like that in China would result in more serious consequences. You might not like it, but that is beyond your control and you should be aware of that.

sdrothrock 9y ago
For an American perspective, I've thought about this a lot while talking to Chinese friends, and I wonder if the closest thing to this in American culture (while not being at all equivalent, just analogous) would be claiming that Puerto Rico is the 51st state. Factually, it is not. Emotionally, some people may want it to be and may very well have valid arguments for it. People across the US and Puerto Rico would have strong opinions on either side of the argument.
- charlieflowers 9y ago
  Anecdotally, I'm an American and that statement would get barely a chuckle out of me. I really wouldn't care and most people I know wouldn't either. So I don't know if it's the best analogy.
- anonforthis323 9y ago
  I think a more appropriate analogy would depend on how the person leans. It would be like telling a conservative that they stole America from the Natives and should give reparations. Or it would be like telling a liberal that it was the colonists that made America what it is today, so they don't owe the Natives anything.
jasonwatkinspdx 9y ago
Quite obviously everyone here knows it's not literally about pedantry of whether Tibet is part of China's defacto legal territory. And none of us care one bit if you're offended. Your offense to a sense of nationalism, no matter how historical or ingrained, does not excuse the past and continued injustice of what has been forced on the Tibetan people. Edit: downvotes to this post were literally instantaneous. This topic is most likely being botted.
Asooka 9y ago
1. Tibet IS a country, no matter what your excuse for a government has poisoned your mind with. They're an independent country and you have no claim to their territorial sovereignty. Just because you drove some tanks and killed some people does not legitimise your claim to Tibetan territory. 2. Fuck those people. I think it's quite telling of Chinese people that while you list other countries as valuing good behaviours, you yourself base your value on being respected for being a bully. Oh, and if you really live in China: 天安门广场大屠杀 have fun explaining this one to the censors.
klibertp 9y ago
Could you explain what is your view on the acquisition of the Tibetan territory by China? From what I know about the issue, the transfer of the territory was forced, wasn't it? What justification do you have for invading and annexation of a previously independent country? Is it that it never was independent in the first place? Do you have any sources to support this? I come from a country which was occupied in its entirety for over a hundred years - it's arguably worse than what happened to China in the same time-frame. I can understand sovereignty being of prime concern to you. On the other hand, precisely because of a history like that, I can't help but see the Tibetans sovereignty over themselves being denied. In other words, I'd like to understand: what makes you believe you have a right to take a sovereignty from others as you pursue your own? Is asserting your sovereignty over dead bodies of another nation worth it? (or are Tibetans considered to be 100% Chinese? if so, how come they seem to disagree?)
- paradite 9y ago
  I generally disagree with the approach of annexing or colonizing other independent countries. China in particular has suffered much from colonization so that's something we don't like to see happening to other countries. With that being said, we cannot control what happened in the past, as in the conflicts and sovereignty transfers due to wars that long happened before modern China was born. If you look at the history of China and Tibet, China has exerted sovereignty claims on Tibet since Qing dynasty and Republic of China: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_under_Qing_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_under_Qing_rule - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%931951) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%931951) And it is the Britain that invaded Tibet during the Chinese rule of Tibet in 1903: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_expedition_to_Tibet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_expedition_to_Tibet The reason for the period of de facto independence afterwards is partly due to British invasion leaving a power vacuum and partly due to China busy fighting WW2 and internal civil war between Kuomintang and Communist Party. So I think it is reasonable and legitimate to claim sovereignty properly after WW2 adn the Chinese civil war is over.
anonforthis323 9y ago
It's ironic that you are being so severely downvoted in this thread just for stating an honest opinion.

sdrothrock 9y ago

For an American perspective, I've thought about this a lot while talking to Chinese friends, and I wonder if the closest thing to this in American culture (while not being at all equivalent, just analogous) would be claiming that Puerto Rico is the 51st state. Factually, it is not. Emotionally, some people may want it to be and may very well have valid arguments for it. People across the US and Puerto Rico would have strong opinions on either side of the argument.

charlieflowers 9y ago
Anecdotally, I'm an American and that statement would get barely a chuckle out of me. I really wouldn't care and most people I know wouldn't either. So I don't know if it's the best analogy.
anonforthis323 9y ago
I think a more appropriate analogy would depend on how the person leans. It would be like telling a conservative that they stole America from the Natives and should give reparations. Or it would be like telling a liberal that it was the colonists that made America what it is today, so they don't owe the Natives anything.

jasonwatkinspdx 9y ago

Quite obviously everyone here knows it's not literally about pedantry of whether Tibet is part of China's defacto legal territory. And none of us care one bit if you're offended. Your offense to a sense of nationalism, no matter how historical or ingrained, does not excuse the past and continued injustice of what has been forced on the Tibetan people. Edit: downvotes to this post were literally instantaneous. This topic is most likely being botted.

Asooka 9y ago

1. Tibet IS a country, no matter what your excuse for a government has poisoned your mind with. They're an independent country and you have no claim to their territorial sovereignty. Just because you drove some tanks and killed some people does not legitimise your claim to Tibetan territory. 2. Fuck those people. I think it's quite telling of Chinese people that while you list other countries as valuing good behaviours, you yourself base your value on being respected for being a bully. Oh, and if you really live in China: 天安门广场大屠杀 have fun explaining this one to the censors.

klibertp 9y ago

Could you explain what is your view on the acquisition of the Tibetan territory by China? From what I know about the issue, the transfer of the territory was forced, wasn't it? What justification do you have for invading and annexation of a previously independent country? Is it that it never was independent in the first place? Do you have any sources to support this? I come from a country which was occupied in its entirety for over a hundred years - it's arguably worse than what happened to China in the same time-frame. I can understand sovereignty being of prime concern to you. On the other hand, precisely because of a history like that, I can't help but see the Tibetans sovereignty over themselves being denied. In other words, I'd like to understand: what makes you believe you have a right to take a sovereignty from others as you pursue your own? Is asserting your sovereignty over dead bodies of another nation worth it? (or are Tibetans considered to be 100% Chinese? if so, how come they seem to disagree?)

paradite 9y ago
I generally disagree with the approach of annexing or colonizing other independent countries. China in particular has suffered much from colonization so that's something we don't like to see happening to other countries. With that being said, we cannot control what happened in the past, as in the conflicts and sovereignty transfers due to wars that long happened before modern China was born. If you look at the history of China and Tibet, China has exerted sovereignty claims on Tibet since Qing dynasty and Republic of China: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_under_Qing_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_under_Qing_rule - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%931951) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibet_(1912%E2%80%931951) And it is the Britain that invaded Tibet during the Chinese rule of Tibet in 1903: - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_expedition_to_Tibet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_expedition_to_Tibet The reason for the period of de facto independence afterwards is partly due to British invasion leaving a power vacuum and partly due to China busy fighting WW2 and internal civil war between Kuomintang and Communist Party. So I think it is reasonable and legitimate to claim sovereignty properly after WW2 adn the Chinese civil war is over.

anonforthis323 9y ago

It's ironic that you are being so severely downvoted in this thread just for stating an honest opinion.