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Cluster and app management services in Docker Cloud are shutting down on May 21
- jcoffland 9y agoThis is why your company or product should not depend on that new cool SaaS/PaaS.
- devmunchies 9y agoThis is why you shouldn’t depend on any service that isn’t profitable, not just SaaS/PaaS.
- yannski 9y agoThis is why you should write your app code to be independant from your current provider, Always thinking that you may have to change (maybe urgently) in the future
- tnolet 9y agoDamn. My last company ran a bunch of production things in Docker Cloud. Contrary to many opinions, I kinda liked it. It was cheap and fairly simple to use. The API was straightforward and way less expansive and cumbersome than something like AWS ECS.
- zebra9978 9y agoTwitter users are up in arms because of the decision to retire production systems with a 2 months notice - https://twitter.com/thomashermine/status/976398123215065088 https://twitter.com/thomashermine/status/976398123215065088 https://twitter.com/garethdiz/status/976188140670017536 https://twitter.com/garethdiz/status/976188140670017536 https://twitter.com/LenioLabsLLC/status/976201790482915328 https://twitter.com/LenioLabsLLC/status/976201790482915328
- scrollaway 9y ago> Twitter users People. People are up in arms. Anyway, yeah, that's insane. Even Google, who constantly shuts stuff down, usually does so with way more heads up. For comparison, Google Reader, a completely free service, shut down with 3.5 months advance notice. Google Wave got almost 6 months notice.
- cygned 9y ago> Google Reader It still hurts.
- Hallucinaut 9y agoIt was the day RSS died for me
- scrollaway 9y agohttps://bazqux.com/ https://bazqux.com/ - Highly recommended. I'm a lifetime subscriber.
- pronik 9y agoLet it live again with InoReader....
- dbrgn 9y agoI'm glad it happened, now I'm happier with Feedly than I was back then with Google Reader.
- detaro 9y agoI really don't get why this statement is so common. More or less every other hosted reader immediately offered a migration path, so getting out of Reader and up and running somewhere else was really easy.
- 112233 9y agoSince I missed on missing it, was there any particular feature that's not in other rss readers? I have only user rss via gwene over nntp, if that went away, i'd miss it bunches.
- cygned 9y agoIt’s not about features. Nowadays, I’d go with a self-hosted Open Source application from the start. In fact, that’s what I am looking for at this very moment.
- jopsen 9y agoIt certainly makes me rethink if docker services should be relied on in production. Migrating off docker cloud will be a pain, but the service was already a pain to use, so maybe it's about time anyways. But imagine being given 2 months to migrate off docker hub for image storage. Panic would ensue :)
- jsilence 9y agoI understand that having to abandon ship sucks, but wasn't the whole point of containers that they can be migrated easily? heck, the whole concept got its name from that idea. So why the fuss? edit: typos
- est 9y agobut why? The whole point of containers is that they are ephemeral and can be booted up quickly anywhere because you statically link the whole fucking OS?
- foepys 9y agoThe APIs of platforms are often totally different. If you went to docker cloud for its simplicity and now have to move to AWS/GCP/Azure/etc. and don't have a dedicated DevOps that knows one of those platforms already, you have no choice other than taking a developer working on features and putting them on learning the new API in a few weeks including testing. ~8 weeks is not enough for that if you are a cash-strapped startup.
- toomuchtodo 9y agoSuch are the perils of using immature tools in your development chain and production systems.
- curryhowardiso 9y agoIt's also due to the fact (which I also tweeted) that Kubernetes is not even supported on the stable release channel of Docker for Mac!
- devmunchies 9y agoI was logged into docker the other day and saw this notification but I didn’t—and still don’t—know exactly what services they’re referring to. Do they mean everything under cloud.docker.com, the swarms beta, or something else?
- jakob223 9y agoWhat exactly is docker cloud and how does it fit in the docker workflow?
- gaius 9y agoIt was their hosting service, they would run your containers for you “in the cloud”.
- a012 9y agoI don't have experience with Docker Cloud, but it's Docker company's SaaS. https://blog.docker.com/2015/10/docker-acquires-tutum/ https://blog.docker.com/2015/10/docker-acquires-tutum/
- dahidahi1 9y agoIt's a managed application service where you bring your own node, from the cloud or from on-prem. It gives you a dashboard & end to end management of applications running on your nodes.
- sidi 9y agoGiven the time it takes to migrate the production stack to another system (one or more months), this won't be enough time for many users to migrate. There is no drop-in replacement. It is pretty abrupt of them to give a 60 day notice. On a meta thought, I wonder what potentially caused this move. It is/was a pretty decent service.
- jopsen 9y agoPeople, yours truly included, seem a bit concerned with the 2 months notice. To be fair docker cloud was never great and hopefully it doesn't have many big customers... But the precedence of shutting down a paid service with 2 months notice is not nice. What would happen if this was docker hub? Panic!
- gingerlime 9y ago> What would happen if this was docker hub? Panic! Isn't docker hub relatively easy to replace, in comparison? Otherwise, is this a wakeup call perhaps?
- TheDong 9y agodocker hub is surprisingly difficult to replace because of how docker registries work. Traditional package managers have two distinct concepts: a repository and packages within those repositories. For example, if ubuntu took down their apt repo server, I could run my own with all the same packages and change a single sources.list entry and all my servers, ansible roles installing packages, etc, would operate the same. This is possible because the package name+version is an identifier everything else uses and the only thing that cares about the repository is apt itself; all other tooling doesn't need to know about the repository the package is sourced from. Docker conflates those two things. Each client doesn't just send a package name, it sends a url + package name + version (e.g. foo.registryurl.com/image:version). Because every single client has the detail of "foo.registryurl.com" baked in, it's difficult to change that. I can't change a single "repository-mapping" file that the docker daemon reads to quickly update it. Instead, I have to update every single client. The idea of decoupling those is not new. In 2014 it was proposed [1], and various implementations that would help make it easier to migrate off the default registry have been proposed and rejected [2] This doesn't even get into the lack of tooling for chasing down the transitive dependencies building my images has on various registries with each FROM. [1]: https://github.com/moby/moby/issues/8329 https://github.com/moby/moby/issues/8329 [2]: https://github.com/moby/moby/pull/5821#issuecomment-49492924 https://github.com/moby/moby/pull/5821#issuecomment-49492924
- 9y ago
- krispbyte 9y agoWasn't the whole point of docker containers that deploys and migrations are a breeze?
- sidi 9y agoDocker cloud offered CI/CD integrations and management features similar to K8S that were proprietary to them. While Docker images themselves are portable, this is a whole different beast.
- est 9y agoin other words, for the micro-service world, you don't have the monolith, the whole stack is the monolith?
- clhodapp 9y agoIt seems like they are only discontinuing the hosted swarm part for now and keeping the rest up. That said, it may just be a matter of time before the great of the stuff goes down.
- the_imp 9y agoThe timing of this (shutdown on 21 May) made me wonder if it's related to the GDPR coming into effect starting on 25 May.
- gingerlime 9y agoAt first, I immediately discounted it as just plain coincidence. But actually, it could well have been. I imagine the service wasn't really making money, and to add GDPR compliance on top, could have been the last straw (or a contributing factor)
- perlgeek 9y agoIt may well but, but everybody knew that GDPR was coming. If this was the reason, why not announce it (much) earlier?
- eddiezane 9y agoI am thinking that it sets them up to announce something (possibly fully embracing K8s) at DockerCon[0] which is a few weeks after. 0: https://2018.dockercon.com https://2018.dockercon.com
- holydude 9y agoI always chuckle when people put so much trust in "startup" companies. It's the same like believing in IBM not trying to screw you over. There's a reason why people and businesses hate vendor lock ins. There's a reason why we do not want AWS to reign supreme for long.
- WillPostForFood 9y agoAt least you know isn’t going to be shutting down their cloud services anytime soon.
- gaius 9y agoDocker the file format/command line syntax/etc will long outlive Docker the company Kubernetes “won” so now the competition has shifted from who can innovate to who can execute and operate.
- joefarish 9y agoGenuine question - what makes you think that Kubernetes has won?
- gaius 9y agoGenuine question - what makes you think that Kubernetes has won? Well, "won" in quotes. I am not a k8s fanboy or anything, I simply observe that all the major cloud providers are offering managed k8s services that have superseded their own proprietary container-type offerings. For better or worse that's where the momentum is. If you wanted to containerize your stack right now, k8s then pick one of the big 3, seems like a safe bet.
- imiric 9y agoI've noticed the same trend, and as a fan of Docker Swarm, along with this news, I'm not happy about it. Compared to Kubernetes, Swarm is a breeze to setup, deploy and manage. The manifest files are the same Docker Compose files we're used to, just expanded to cover the new stack concepts. It has support for remote storage mounting, advanced networking configuration, various interesting volume and network plugins[0], and is generally a pain-free experience to use (from my admittedly short time with both). Kubernetes is a fine product. It's just a shame Swarm doesn't seem to have the same traction. Can someone share their Swarm experience in production, possibly compared to k8s? [0]: https://docs.docker.com/engine/extend/legacy_plugins/ https://docs.docker.com/engine/extend/legacy_plugins/
- sz4kerto 9y agoWe're going with Swarm exactly because of the reasons you've listed. The EE part is a bit flaky sometimes (I'm looking at you, UCP), but Swarm is brilliant.
- adityapatadia 9y agoIt was long known since they did not ship any new update since August 2016. We at Turing Analytics migrated to Rancher labs about 6 months ago. They should have announced it earlier and should have given more time to paying customers. I am glad I migrated very early.
- gingerlime 9y agoIs there a hosted rancher service? I played around with it a long while ago and really liked it, but felt like more moving parts (and particularly on MySQL, which wasn't in our stack) wasn't something I was too keen on. Having someone manage this for us could be worth paying for though.
- pronik 9y agoRancher, the container orchestration, is pretty much dead too, since it's K8s-based from (upcoming) 2.0 on, i.e. it's becoming a K8s distribution and has to compete with K8s itself, OpenShift and probably upcoming open-sourced edition of Tectonic. RancherOS might live on, even though there is a lot of doubt on why it should do so.
- gtirloni 9y agoI think you mean "cattle", the container orchestration system in Rancher 1.x Rancher (and Rancher OS) seem to be doing fine and getting updates constantly. We're eyeing Rancher 2.x and the Kubernetes integration but it gives me confidence seeing Rancher 1.x getting updated while they are so focused in 2.x and K8s.
- adityapatadia 9y agoRancher is far from dead. They are essentially making a nice frontend for k8s. All we care about is ease of deployment and management of containers. If that is being achieved by k8s, we don't have problem. And yes, they are managing 1.x version nicely with timely updates. Plus it's a self hosted version so no such fear of it disappearing within 2 months. :)
- 9y ago
- jimaek 9y agoWhat was the point of acquiring Tutum killing it, rebranding to Docker Cloud and killing it as well. Tutum actually worked and I really liked it. Now I plan to use Rancher on top of kubernetes for my docker hosting
- zebra9978 9y agoWe are extremely worried about the future of Docker Swarm as well. We love Swarm - but we are seeing most work out of the Docker team is to give a migration path to kubernetes. A huge number of docker swarm networking bugs are not being worked on. We will be happy if Docker talks about Swarm becoming a management UX for K8s - but we need visibility. These are production orchestration systems. The migration path is not easy. And seeing what Docker Co is doing with Cloud, it is not very comforting to trust that they will do the right thing with Swarm.
- cygned 9y agoI had to make a decision for an orchestration tool a few weeks ago and I went with K8s. One of the main reasons was that even Docker advertises it on its website and with Docker for Mac. I expect Swarm support to be canceled in a not so distant future and I cannot rely on a tool with an unclear future. Which is a pity because I really liked Swarm for its simplicity. Side note: I am also concerned about Docker in general. CE/EE split, services shutting down, bugs seemingly not being fixed - I cannot point out a precise aspect, but I am concerned.
- ianai 9y agoWho’s beating them? Amazon?
- sytse 9y agoKubernetes had won the container scheduler wars. At GitLab we're all in on making a PaaS based on k8s and our CI/CD and the container registry that is part of GitLab.
- candiodari 9y agoIt feels awfully 19th century though that despite k8s having "won", by far the biggest container schedulers by containers scheduled are, no doubt: (I think this is the correct order, not 100% sure of course) 1) google borg (maybe omega) [1] 2) amazon ec2 3) whatever microsoft is using (large gap) 4) all the rest of the world combined, a small portion of which is k8s [1] https://www.quora.com/Does-Google-use-the-Open-Source-Kubernetes-or-a-version-of-Borg-for-their-own-container-management https://www.quora.com/Does-Google-use-the-Open-Source-Kubern... (one might even say [1] seems to imply it'll never happen, or at least take a very long time. Also if you read the papers it becomes very clear that "Google Borg" includes a lot of things these days at many levels, from custom ASICs, device firmware (as in standard device, google borg firmware), BIOS firmware, entirely custom sub-kernel code, custom kernels, custom userspace (ie. Google-specific libc that's not optional), ... all of these will turn out to have dependencies on eachother that have to be redone for k8s, could take a while to migrate over) (although I have not read any papers on it (I'd love some though), I'd bet amazon is in a similar boat, and of course Microsoft is Microsoft)
- Kiro 9y agoGDPR killed Docker Cloud. It's not the last victim we will see.
- StreamBright 9y agoWhat? How on earth could have this been the case?
- andrei821 9y agoHad a startup in this area, with swarm under the hood, and realised last year (when RackSpace closed Carina) that 1. swarm is loosing momentum due to the ammount of new features, stability and native cloud integration that k8s brought; 2. containers are beeig adopted at a huge speed, and big cloud providers like aws and gce have lots of users and trust, so the effort of offer CaaS is not that big, with great chances of success; 3. The hosting market is tough due to comprtition. DigitalOcean was in this market way before they were caled DO.; 4. When you want to make money from OSS like Docker does, companies like RedHat and IBM allready have years ahead of competition due to their established sales channels (in 1-2y from now we will see tectonic in all rhel powered companies, and docker announcing that it’s not supporting UCP any more)
- paride5745 9y agoHow long until redhat buys docker?
- showkhill 9y agoPlease keep docker swarm going guys, it's a great product. Docker cloud is no loss (with apologies to those who are using it in production) and will hopefully free up your people to work on other important stuff. Otherwise if we can continue to use the compose configuration api and the docker deploy/service api with k8s under the hood then I guess that's a reasonable compromise.
- crehn 9y agoPlease keep swarm mode going. It’s a pleasure to use, easy to set up, works well with Compose and overall satisfies a lot use cases. Thanks for your work!
- agotterer 9y agoDocker really needs to provide some transparency around these decisions. People are concerned about the future of the ecosystem. They have every right to shutdown aspects of their offering. But the community deserves an explainstion. This notice didn’t even attempt to explain the decision. Is Docker stopping development on swarm? Getting out of the PaaS business? Downsizing?
- dahidahi1 9y agoHow is the community affected in any way by this decision? Docker cloud is a management product and only open to paying customers.
- is0tope 9y agoI've been meaning to learn kubernetes for a while now having been a docker compose user for a few years. Swarm seemed super appealing due to easy migration and simplicity. Having gone through a few tutorials for Kube I still feel a little overwhelmed with the volume of configuration, and also how local development is meant to be done. This was always a very cool part of compose.
- jwhitlark 9y agoI found kubernetes up and running really helpful. Kubernetes the hard way was really useful, but a painful weekend.
- zbruhnke 9y agoAs I read through this all it feels sort of weird even typing it but I kind of hope Amazon or Microsoft buys Docker rather than Oracle, Google or IBM. I think Microsoft still employs thousands of great engineers and have been early embracers of containerization among the large companies out there and because Satya was a large part of growing Azure into what it is (IMHO a pretty solid set of services) it could make a lot of sense
- rmetzler 9y agoI was wondering if you think the whole Docker inc is closing or something like that. Docker is only shutting down their cloud offering for Docker Swarm and I think it is to bundle their resources and focus on integrating Kubernetes.
- QuinnyPig 9y agoI’m trying and failing to imagine a future where Docker achieves business success as a stand-alone entity.
- molszanski 9y agoLong time docker user here. Docker Cloud was getting worse and worse. Tutum (they acquired, rebranded and killed it) was great. But docker team just destroyed it. That is a shame. Tutum was great since it scaled up and down very well. Nobody thinks about scaling down, but this is important in many ways. Right now IMO: - Docker swarm - scales up and down ok. Had too many bugs with even on stable. - Rancher - fine, very good for medium deployments. - k8 - winner for larger scale but scales down badly. This is really sad.
- BenfromOz 9y agoWow this is very surprising. I've been working on a Docker Cloud alternative for awhile now. I'm aiming for something that kind of balances the convenience of Heroku with the Docker experience. It's still in beta but if anyone wants to check it out it's at: https://codemason.io/ https://codemason.io/