5 ms·

Extradition for? Doing something that is legal in my country while in my country?

emodendroket 9y ago
Yes, that is possible. I can't imagine the US is going to extradite anyone for violating the GDPR, but there is no principle barring it. Kim Dotcom's case is probably of interest here.
- jakeogh 9y ago
  In the case of the US, you are incorrect. The US Constitution is the supreme law of the land, having a extradition treaty changes nothing. Kim was not in the US, and "we" pulled strings to get to him in NZ. I'm not arguing that was right (it was not!) but that's a NZ problem. No US court is ever going to extradite a US citizen for _not_ breaking a US law. This goes directly to why we have the 2nd. If you claim otherwise, I would appreciate an example.
  - emodendroket 9y ago
    What part of the Constitution would bar this?
    - jakeogh 9y ago
      Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_I... Then move on to what juries are, and what peers are. In the US we have 3 boxes, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box. It's a beautiful system. I realize it might be hard to understand that we are not chattel, and make our own laws, but that's the way it is. You are making an extraordinary claim, that a US citizen can be extradited for _not_ breaking a US law, the burden is on you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Notice_of_accusation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_... If you think "the statue" in "words of the statute" means a foreign law I really cant help you since you gotta start redefining what "the" means at that point.
      - emodendroket 9y ago
        OK, well, if your exegesis of the Constitution begins with citing the Declaration of Independence and includes rants about armed insurrection, I think it's safe to say it's not that well thought out.
        jakeogh 9y ago
        Armed insurrection is exactly why the US exists and is not subject to foreign law. Labeling discussion of that a rant does not distract from your failure to back up an unprecedented claim. /rant
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        emodendroket 9y ago
        There's nothing really "unprecedented" about it -- the whole premise of extradition is handing someone over for violating foreign laws, not violating US laws.
        jakeogh 9y ago
        You seem to be attempting to change the subject. I said: "Extradition for? Doing something that is legal in my country while in my country?" You said: "Yes, that is possible." Please provide some precedent for your assertion. To extradite someone, you must first arrest them. In the United States, to arrest someone, you must have probable cause that that person violated a US law[0]. In every case you are going to be able to find, the person wanted by the dest country was either: a. In that country when they broke the law (which is a different subject with plenty of caveats). b. Violated US law and the foreign law while in the US (also a different subject). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Notice_of_accusation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_...
        9y ago

Yes, that is possible. I can't imagine the US is going to extradite anyone for violating the GDPR, but there is no principle barring it. Kim Dotcom's case is probably of interest here.

jakeogh 9y ago
In the case of the US, you are incorrect. The US Constitution is the supreme law of the land, having a extradition treaty changes nothing. Kim was not in the US, and "we" pulled strings to get to him in NZ. I'm not arguing that was right (it was not!) but that's a NZ problem. No US court is ever going to extradite a US citizen for _not_ breaking a US law. This goes directly to why we have the 2nd. If you claim otherwise, I would appreciate an example.
- emodendroket 9y ago
  What part of the Constitution would bar this?
  - jakeogh 9y ago
    Start here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_Independence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of_I... Then move on to what juries are, and what peers are. In the US we have 3 boxes, the ballot box, the jury box, and the ammo box. It's a beautiful system. I realize it might be hard to understand that we are not chattel, and make our own laws, but that's the way it is. You are making an extraordinary claim, that a US citizen can be extradited for _not_ breaking a US law, the burden is on you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Notice_of_accusation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_... If you think "the statue" in "words of the statute" means a foreign law I really cant help you since you gotta start redefining what "the" means at that point.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      OK, well, if your exegesis of the Constitution begins with citing the Declaration of Independence and includes rants about armed insurrection, I think it's safe to say it's not that well thought out.
      - jakeogh 9y ago
        Armed insurrection is exactly why the US exists and is not subject to foreign law. Labeling discussion of that a rant does not distract from your failure to back up an unprecedented claim. /rant
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
        emodendroket 9y ago
        There's nothing really "unprecedented" about it -- the whole premise of extradition is handing someone over for violating foreign laws, not violating US laws.
        jakeogh 9y ago
        You seem to be attempting to change the subject. I said: "Extradition for? Doing something that is legal in my country while in my country?" You said: "Yes, that is possible." Please provide some precedent for your assertion. To extradite someone, you must first arrest them. In the United States, to arrest someone, you must have probable cause that that person violated a US law[0]. In every case you are going to be able to find, the person wanted by the dest country was either: a. In that country when they broke the law (which is a different subject with plenty of caveats). b. Violated US law and the foreign law while in the US (also a different subject). [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution#Notice_of_accusation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_...
        9y ago