4 ms·

Floating in the Air: The World That Made Dostoyevsky’s Crime and Punishment

68 points by lermontov 9y ago

te_platt 9y ago
A few years ago I re-read Crime and Punishment, 30 years after trying to get through it in high school. I was blown away by how deeply it affected me this time around. It's not so much a crime story as much as a "why is there crime?" story - or even a "what forces in my mind and in everyone else's minds are really shaping my moral actions?" story. (I just searched the internet for that last quote and apparently I need to read more Kant). I had some Russian friends where I was working at the time and asked them about Crime and Punishment and they all just frowned and nodded for a minute before one of them said "yes... very dark..." For any of you here who may have read it too young I highly recommend going back and reading it again
- ianai 9y ago
  His “House of the Dead” was amazing too. It was not unlike watching “Lock Up” but from mid 1800s Russia.
malvosenior 9y ago
I find Dostoyevsky to be incredibly approachable to the modern reader. There’s a wry sense of humor in his work (and other contemporary Russian authors) that feels closer to Seinfeld than say Shakespear. It’s very dark but the themes and internal dialog of the characters are shockingly fresh. The Brothers K is also an excellent read.
FeepingCreature 9y ago
> Some would argue that, with the election of Donald Trump, the American public made the most self-destructive and irrational decision in our nation’s history. Some would argue that those people are blistering idiots with a complete lack of knowledge about their nation's history.
- fictionfuture 9y ago
  Agree. Obamacare has been the most damaging policy enacted in my lifetime. And that's the opposite of what Trump is doing
- mynameishere 9y ago
  I think the media just needs to attack Trump in every situation no matter how unrelated to the subject matter. (19th century Russian literary criticism, for instance.) If you were obliged to phone it in like that, you'd probably not worry too much about nuance either.
- Nomentatus 9y ago
  Some would - but not you, as you give no argument, or point to any. Gainsaying is not a contribution.
  - atomic77 9y ago
    Though it also doesn't contribute much, I just had to say that the laugh I got from this comment isn't properly compensated by a mere upvote.
  - FeepingCreature 9y ago
    Manifest Destiny. Smallpox Blankets. Trail of Tears. Slavery. Going to war to defend slavery. Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Vietnam. Iraq. Iraq again. The prison system. Prohibition. Segregation. War on Drugs. I'm not even an American. Trump is embarassing. America has done a lot worse than embarassing.
    - Nomentatus 9y ago
      There's good evidence the British used smallpox (shards of cloth carefully sealed, not whole blankets) vs natives in N.A. Less evidence of U.S. (or Trump) involvement I believe. I'm not a Trump guy, I just like evidence more than assertion.
fictionfuture 9y ago
Jordan Peterson says this book is a masterpiece of psychology and modern philosophy. Maybe it's time to pick it up
- watwut 9y ago
  It is pretty good at describing psychology of nearly sociopathic random murderer. It is not really about general psychology of majority of people who don't kill without reason.
telesilla 9y ago
Ah Raskolnikov - I had a literary crush on him as an 18 year old girl. Dostoyevsky helped clarify my late-teenage ideas, along with other authors of his ilk, that morality is a construct created by humans and is not a fixed set of laws based on natural order to be blindly followed. Like his fictional love-interest, I was disappointed in Raskolnikov's carrying-through with the crime, but pleased with how the book elaborated and continued on important human themes of self-discovery (not to add any spoilers for those yet to enjoy this wonderful novel). I think this book is best for young people who are forming their ideas, but if you read it as a fully-formed adult you'll certainly still enjoy the prose.
- isoskeles 9y ago
  Would there have been a novel to write if Raskolnikov didn't carry through with the crime?
  - telesilla 9y ago
    It's the critical part of the novel, that he does! That was understood, but it's like watching a movie yelling at the screen, don't go in there!
robin_reala 9y ago
If anyone hasn’t read Crime & Punishment and wants to, I produced a nice public domain edition of the Constance Garnett translation for Standard Ebooks. I was particularly pleased with finding the cover art, which is a self-portrait by Edvard Munch. https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/fyodor-dostoevsky/crime-and-punishment/constance-garnett https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/fyodor-dostoevsky/crime-an...
- eterm 9y ago
  The first version I read was the Constance Garnett version, but re-reading I read the Pevear and Volokhonsky translation and I'd recommend that version. (Although that one is not public domain yet of course).
stochastic_monk 9y ago
Crime and Punishment is a stunningly powerful novel. For anyone who enjoys it or Notes From Underground, I highly recommend Demons, which extrapolates the ideas from both previously mentioned to societal scale. I think it's his best by far. A note on translations: I've read at least two translations for each book of his I've read. I generally prefer the Pevear/Volokhonsky translations, but there are times when the Garnett translations capture the spirit a little better. Both options are excellent, but read the Pevear/Volokhonsky if you have to pick one. Reading multiple translations can ultimately help provide a fuller experience.
pmoriarty 9y ago
One of the things that struck me upon rereading Crime and Punishement recently was how forcefully and persuasively Dostoyevsky argues for both sides of issues. Whereas with lesser authors one can easily tell which side of an issue they are on, with Dostoyevsky it's not so easy (though you can infer from the mere fact that Dostoyevsky chose to write about them at all that he cares deeply about them). The most unsympathetic of his characters are also portrayed quite sympathetically and compassionately. The reader really understands how they can do the reprehensible things they do, can understand what brought them to this end, and even sympathize with them. They are the polar opposites of the flat, two dimensional cardboard cutouts that pass for characters in most other books.
- atomic77 9y ago
  I also coincidentally re-read Crime and Punishment a few months ago and was also struck at how differently I saw it today than as a college student. I would be interested to understand how you came to the conclusion that he argued for both sides? I saw a scathing repudiation of the socialist utopians of the era (and 'rational' ideologues of all sorts). He 'argued' their sides too, but with the goal of making them appear ridiculous. By the time Raskolnikov's fictional essay about the "extraordinary" comes up, i think it's pretty clear what Dostoyevsky is trying to say. Though that's just my interpretation.
  - stochastic_monk 9y ago
    The fascinating thing about Dostoevsky is that he seems to argue the points he doesn’t believe in better. I walked away from Demons and Brothers Karamazov thinking that the points for atheism were more firmly established than the religious worldview he himself espoused. Yes, the nihilism points were argued to be a point of comparison against, but his aim was didactic in the political realm. He explores this further and more completely in Demons.
    - atomic77 9y ago
      Interesting, so you would tend to agree with the parent comment, especially if you hadn't known anything about the author beforehand? It's a great illustration of the range of interpretations possible of any artistic work. I've also read that Demons expands upon many of the ideas in C&P though I had a bit more trouble getting into it. After hearing about these newer translations though I might have to give one a try.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

68 points by lermontov 9y ago

A few years ago I re-read Crime and Punishment, 30 years after trying to get through it in high school. I was blown away by how deeply it affected me this time around. It's not so much a crime story as much as a "why is there crime?" story - or even a "what forces in my mind and in everyone else's minds are really shaping my moral actions?" story. (I just searched the internet for that last quote and apparently I need to read more Kant). I had some Russian friends where I was working at the time and asked them about Crime and Punishment and they all just frowned and nodded for a minute before one of them said "yes... very dark..." For any of you here who may have read it too young I highly recommend going back and reading it again

ianai 9y ago
His “House of the Dead” was amazing too. It was not unlike watching “Lock Up” but from mid 1800s Russia.

malvosenior 9y ago

I find Dostoyevsky to be incredibly approachable to the modern reader. There’s a wry sense of humor in his work (and other contemporary Russian authors) that feels closer to Seinfeld than say Shakespear. It’s very dark but the themes and internal dialog of the characters are shockingly fresh. The Brothers K is also an excellent read.

FeepingCreature 9y ago

> Some would argue that, with the election of Donald Trump, the American public made the most self-destructive and irrational decision in our nation’s history. Some would argue that those people are blistering idiots with a complete lack of knowledge about their nation's history.

fictionfuture 9y ago
Agree. Obamacare has been the most damaging policy enacted in my lifetime. And that's the opposite of what Trump is doing
mynameishere 9y ago
I think the media just needs to attack Trump in every situation no matter how unrelated to the subject matter. (19th century Russian literary criticism, for instance.) If you were obliged to phone it in like that, you'd probably not worry too much about nuance either.
Nomentatus 9y ago
Some would - but not you, as you give no argument, or point to any. Gainsaying is not a contribution.
- atomic77 9y ago
  Though it also doesn't contribute much, I just had to say that the laugh I got from this comment isn't properly compensated by a mere upvote.
- FeepingCreature 9y ago
  Manifest Destiny. Smallpox Blankets. Trail of Tears. Slavery. Going to war to defend slavery. Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Vietnam. Iraq. Iraq again. The prison system. Prohibition. Segregation. War on Drugs. I'm not even an American. Trump is embarassing. America has done a lot worse than embarassing.
  - Nomentatus 9y ago
    There's good evidence the British used smallpox (shards of cloth carefully sealed, not whole blankets) vs natives in N.A. Less evidence of U.S. (or Trump) involvement I believe. I'm not a Trump guy, I just like evidence more than assertion.

fictionfuture 9y ago

Jordan Peterson says this book is a masterpiece of psychology and modern philosophy. Maybe it's time to pick it up

watwut 9y ago
It is pretty good at describing psychology of nearly sociopathic random murderer. It is not really about general psychology of majority of people who don't kill without reason.

telesilla 9y ago

Ah Raskolnikov - I had a literary crush on him as an 18 year old girl. Dostoyevsky helped clarify my late-teenage ideas, along with other authors of his ilk, that morality is a construct created by humans and is not a fixed set of laws based on natural order to be blindly followed. Like his fictional love-interest, I was disappointed in Raskolnikov's carrying-through with the crime, but pleased with how the book elaborated and continued on important human themes of self-discovery (not to add any spoilers for those yet to enjoy this wonderful novel). I think this book is best for young people who are forming their ideas, but if you read it as a fully-formed adult you'll certainly still enjoy the prose.

isoskeles 9y ago
Would there have been a novel to write if Raskolnikov didn't carry through with the crime?
- telesilla 9y ago
  It's the critical part of the novel, that he does! That was understood, but it's like watching a movie yelling at the screen, don't go in there!

robin_reala 9y ago

If anyone hasn’t read Crime & Punishment and wants to, I produced a nice public domain edition of the Constance Garnett translation for Standard Ebooks. I was particularly pleased with finding the cover art, which is a self-portrait by Edvard Munch. https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/fyodor-dostoevsky/crime-and-punishment/constance-garnett https://standardebooks.org/ebooks/fyodor-dostoevsky/crime-an...

eterm 9y ago
The first version I read was the Constance Garnett version, but re-reading I read the Pevear and Volokhonsky translation and I'd recommend that version. (Although that one is not public domain yet of course).

stochastic_monk 9y ago

Crime and Punishment is a stunningly powerful novel. For anyone who enjoys it or Notes From Underground, I highly recommend Demons, which extrapolates the ideas from both previously mentioned to societal scale. I think it's his best by far. A note on translations: I've read at least two translations for each book of his I've read. I generally prefer the Pevear/Volokhonsky translations, but there are times when the Garnett translations capture the spirit a little better. Both options are excellent, but read the Pevear/Volokhonsky if you have to pick one. Reading multiple translations can ultimately help provide a fuller experience.

pmoriarty 9y ago

One of the things that struck me upon rereading Crime and Punishement recently was how forcefully and persuasively Dostoyevsky argues for both sides of issues. Whereas with lesser authors one can easily tell which side of an issue they are on, with Dostoyevsky it's not so easy (though you can infer from the mere fact that Dostoyevsky chose to write about them at all that he cares deeply about them). The most unsympathetic of his characters are also portrayed quite sympathetically and compassionately. The reader really understands how they can do the reprehensible things they do, can understand what brought them to this end, and even sympathize with them. They are the polar opposites of the flat, two dimensional cardboard cutouts that pass for characters in most other books.

atomic77 9y ago
I also coincidentally re-read Crime and Punishment a few months ago and was also struck at how differently I saw it today than as a college student. I would be interested to understand how you came to the conclusion that he argued for both sides? I saw a scathing repudiation of the socialist utopians of the era (and 'rational' ideologues of all sorts). He 'argued' their sides too, but with the goal of making them appear ridiculous. By the time Raskolnikov's fictional essay about the "extraordinary" comes up, i think it's pretty clear what Dostoyevsky is trying to say. Though that's just my interpretation.
- stochastic_monk 9y ago
  The fascinating thing about Dostoevsky is that he seems to argue the points he doesn’t believe in better. I walked away from Demons and Brothers Karamazov thinking that the points for atheism were more firmly established than the religious worldview he himself espoused. Yes, the nihilism points were argued to be a point of comparison against, but his aim was didactic in the political realm. He explores this further and more completely in Demons.
  - atomic77 9y ago
    Interesting, so you would tend to agree with the parent comment, especially if you hadn't known anything about the author beforehand? It's a great illustration of the range of interpretations possible of any artistic work. I've also read that Demons expands upon many of the ideas in C&P though I had a bit more trouble getting into it. After hearing about these newer translations though I might have to give one a try.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]