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They are a super trendy development and cloud consultancy firm based in San Francisco and New York. They have all the right words and everything. Pretentious st

They are a super trendy development and cloud consultancy firm based in San Francisco and New York. They have all the right words and everything. Pretentious start time of 9:06 am, signalled by a gong. All pair programming on iMacs. I visited their very shiny office for a tech talk. Two employees (they call themselves Pivots) used the exact same language to describe how good the strict schedule is. I struck up a conversation with a gentleman wearing their logo. He seemed visibly taken aback when I asked what his role is. Turned out to be C-level and giving the presentation.

rjkennedy98 9y ago
My experience also was that they have a huge snob factor there. I was doing consulting for a database company when I visited their office. In the meeting I was announced as someone when knew our company's product, to which one of the people responded "Oh, I think we already know how <product> works". I wanted to respond, you guys have no f-ing clue how it works, but couldn't for decorum reasons.
- taurath 9y ago
  Yeah its pretty much crazyland over there - they 100% believe their own kool-aid, and evangelize their processes like its the second coming.
  - ryanong 9y ago
    Ex-Pivot here. The kool-aid was amazing. Would drink again. Best communicators I have ever worked with.
  - RandallBrown 9y ago
    Having worked with Pivots in their SF office and in smaller satellite offices, the Kool-aid isn't nearly as strong away from their main offices. But, I do really like a lot of their processes. Pair programming isn't for everyone, but I think it's a better way of building software. Now that I'm not doing it full time, I constantly miss the benefits of it. Their strict schedule is kinda nice for work life balance, but it also means working with them was a little strange. Our whole team would go out for happy hour at 5, but they would stay until 6, even with almost nobody else in the office.
- brian_cunnie 9y ago
  [disclaimer: I work for Pivotal] I'm sorry you had such a disheartening experience at Pivotal; it's uncommon — in general, Pivotal people tend to be very warm and kind, and not snobby at all. When I joined Pivotal six (seven?) years ago, I assumed that I'd stay maybe two years, tops, but the people were nice, and that's what has kept me here. Also, the comment you heard ("Oh I think we already know how [Database X] works") may have not intended to be snobby but rather a nod to one of the developers there: if the database company was InfluxDB, and the office you visited was the NYC office, then there's a good chance that they were referring to one of the Pivotal developers, John, who was one of the early developers of InfluxDB along with Paul Dix and Todd Persen. [1] --- [1] https://www.influxdata.com/blog/influxdb-1-0-ga-released-a-retrospective-and-whats-next/ https://www.influxdata.com/blog/influxdb-1-0-ga-released-a-r...
smellf 9y ago
What's the significance of 9:06am? These guys sound like the worst kind of narcissists. The place sounds more like a cult than a company.
- justherefortart 9y ago
  That's most of SF in my experience. Well either that or staffed 90%+ by H1b. Interesting place.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    > Well either that or staffed 90%+ by H1b. I didn't believe you for a moment, but wow: http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Pivotal+Software+Inc&job=&city=&year=All+Years http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Pivotal+Software+Inc&job=&c...
    - sumedh 9y ago
      I keep reading that US companies complain that they dont get skilled people and I always think its because they are not ready to pay a good salary but looking at the list the salaries look good. So is there really a skills shortage?
      - justherefortart 9y ago
        The skills shortage in my experience is at the management level and above. The number of people that aren't remotely qualified to even be an "IT Guy" that are in management roles are astounding.
    - justherefortart 9y ago
      http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Bank+Of+The+West&job=&city=&year=All+Years http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Bank+Of+The+West&job=&city=... http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=visa&job=&city=&year=All+Years http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=visa&job=&city=&year=All+Ye... http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Adp+Technology+Services+Inc&job=&city=&year=All+Years http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Adp+Technology+Services+Inc... I could find you 100s like this just in the Bay Area. The joke was always, "You're white, why aren't you the manager?"
stickfigure 9y ago
This is unnecessarily cynical. I did a couple consulting stints at Pivotal, working on the CF team. They have a very particular methodology that evolved from the earliest days of agile (Rob Mee was a friend of Kent Beck back when XP was being worked out). I walked in there as a very experienced engineer and a healthy amount of skepticism... and it turned out to be a fantastic learning experience. I've since taken the Pivotal process (yeah, even the weird stuff like pair programming) and used it effectively to manage subsequent companies. I don't love everything about Pivotal (neither Ruby nor Go make my favorite-languages list) but then, not everyone at Pivotal does either. But overall they do agile right, and they have a lot to show for it. You can mock 9:06 but also note that people go home at 6pm and have lives. The schedule has its upsides.
- subway 9y ago
  It's a killer process for churning out mediocre cogs.
  - XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago
    Could you elaborate?
    - subway 9y ago
      Much of the process revolves around trying to ensure everyone on the team can tackle any problem in any part of the codebase. This is accomplished by doing all work paired, rotating pairs daily. Similarly the consultants assigned to your team are regularly rotated in and out to different projects during your engagement. Specialization is highly discouraged, so the result is a mix of people who can kinda accomplish most things eventually, and a rush to find external resources when you need even moderately specialized knowledge about components in your stack.
      - XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago
        So specialization is a precondition for non-cogs?

rjkennedy98 9y ago

My experience also was that they have a huge snob factor there. I was doing consulting for a database company when I visited their office. In the meeting I was announced as someone when knew our company's product, to which one of the people responded "Oh, I think we already know how <product> works". I wanted to respond, you guys have no f-ing clue how it works, but couldn't for decorum reasons.

taurath 9y ago
Yeah its pretty much crazyland over there - they 100% believe their own kool-aid, and evangelize their processes like its the second coming.
- ryanong 9y ago
  Ex-Pivot here. The kool-aid was amazing. Would drink again. Best communicators I have ever worked with.
- RandallBrown 9y ago
  Having worked with Pivots in their SF office and in smaller satellite offices, the Kool-aid isn't nearly as strong away from their main offices. But, I do really like a lot of their processes. Pair programming isn't for everyone, but I think it's a better way of building software. Now that I'm not doing it full time, I constantly miss the benefits of it. Their strict schedule is kinda nice for work life balance, but it also means working with them was a little strange. Our whole team would go out for happy hour at 5, but they would stay until 6, even with almost nobody else in the office.
brian_cunnie 9y ago
[disclaimer: I work for Pivotal] I'm sorry you had such a disheartening experience at Pivotal; it's uncommon — in general, Pivotal people tend to be very warm and kind, and not snobby at all. When I joined Pivotal six (seven?) years ago, I assumed that I'd stay maybe two years, tops, but the people were nice, and that's what has kept me here. Also, the comment you heard ("Oh I think we already know how [Database X] works") may have not intended to be snobby but rather a nod to one of the developers there: if the database company was InfluxDB, and the office you visited was the NYC office, then there's a good chance that they were referring to one of the Pivotal developers, John, who was one of the early developers of InfluxDB along with Paul Dix and Todd Persen. [1] --- [1] https://www.influxdata.com/blog/influxdb-1-0-ga-released-a-retrospective-and-whats-next/ https://www.influxdata.com/blog/influxdb-1-0-ga-released-a-r...

smellf 9y ago

What's the significance of 9:06am? These guys sound like the worst kind of narcissists. The place sounds more like a cult than a company.

justherefortart 9y ago
That's most of SF in my experience. Well either that or staffed 90%+ by H1b. Interesting place.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  > Well either that or staffed 90%+ by H1b. I didn't believe you for a moment, but wow: http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Pivotal+Software+Inc&job=&city=&year=All+Years http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Pivotal+Software+Inc&job=&c...
  - sumedh 9y ago
    I keep reading that US companies complain that they dont get skilled people and I always think its because they are not ready to pay a good salary but looking at the list the salaries look good. So is there really a skills shortage?
    - justherefortart 9y ago
      The skills shortage in my experience is at the management level and above. The number of people that aren't remotely qualified to even be an "IT Guy" that are in management roles are astounding.
  - justherefortart 9y ago
    http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Bank+Of+The+West&job=&city=&year=All+Years http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Bank+Of+The+West&job=&city=... http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=visa&job=&city=&year=All+Years http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=visa&job=&city=&year=All+Ye... http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Adp+Technology+Services+Inc&job=&city=&year=All+Years http://h1bdata.info/index.php?em=Adp+Technology+Services+Inc... I could find you 100s like this just in the Bay Area. The joke was always, "You're white, why aren't you the manager?"

stickfigure 9y ago

This is unnecessarily cynical. I did a couple consulting stints at Pivotal, working on the CF team. They have a very particular methodology that evolved from the earliest days of agile (Rob Mee was a friend of Kent Beck back when XP was being worked out). I walked in there as a very experienced engineer and a healthy amount of skepticism... and it turned out to be a fantastic learning experience. I've since taken the Pivotal process (yeah, even the weird stuff like pair programming) and used it effectively to manage subsequent companies. I don't love everything about Pivotal (neither Ruby nor Go make my favorite-languages list) but then, not everyone at Pivotal does either. But overall they do agile right, and they have a lot to show for it. You can mock 9:06 but also note that people go home at 6pm and have lives. The schedule has its upsides.

subway 9y ago
It's a killer process for churning out mediocre cogs.
- XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago
  Could you elaborate?
  - subway 9y ago
    Much of the process revolves around trying to ensure everyone on the team can tackle any problem in any part of the codebase. This is accomplished by doing all work paired, rotating pairs daily. Similarly the consultants assigned to your team are regularly rotated in and out to different projects during your engagement. Specialization is highly discouraged, so the result is a mix of people who can kinda accomplish most things eventually, and a rush to find external resources when you need even moderately specialized knowledge about components in your stack.
    - XR0CSWV3h3kZWg 9y ago
      So specialization is a precondition for non-cogs?