5 ms·

So, no?

by JungleGymSam 9y ago

So, no?

teraflop 9y ago
HN certainly processes IP and email addresses of individuals within the EU.
- jakeogh 9y ago
  So what? Countries don't get to make laws for other countries. That's the point in having markets of ideas.
  - madez 9y ago
    But countries decide who to punish for what. One thing might not be unlawful in your country, but in another, and that other country can try to go after you. That fact is rather boring and well-established. What matters is how the other country enforces the punishment.
    - zenhack 9y ago
      The thing is, the EU doesn't have sovereignty outside of Europe. If I actually have presence in the EU, or do business with the EU, that's one thing. But they can't tell some rando with a blog living in Boston to delete comments any more than North Korea can pass a law banning making fun of Kim Jong Un in Berlin. They can huff and puff, but at the end of the day they just don't have the authority.
      - madez 9y ago
        Any jurisdiction can "tell you things" and judge you, even if it's not your own. Admittingly, without cooperation with your jurisdiction, the EU jurisdiction cannot enforce a meassure if you don't have any presence under EU jurisdiction. However, if your jurisdiction cooperates with the EU jurisdiction, or if you eventually have some kind of presence in the EU, like traveling, they can go after you.
  - zie 9y ago
    IANAL but I agree. If an entirely US based company was found guilty in a court of law in the EU, but has no business interests in EU, and has no assets of any kind, then the most the EU could do is ask the US politely to do something about the company FOR THEM. the US would have no requirement (unless there is some treaty around this I'm unaware of) to do anything about it. If they had assets of some kind in the EU country, they could capture those assets presumably. But from what I understand with the GDPR at least at the beginning of this, is the EU govt will first try to work with the company to help them comply, before going to such drastic measures as courts and seizing assets. I imagine the large giants like Facebook, etc will just negotiate through their army of lawyers to minimize the effects of GDPR as much as possible, and delay as long as possible. Before ultimately implementing ~ 1/2 of the best intentions behind the GDPR in about a decade or so.
  - Someone 9y ago
    Nice idea, but not 100% consistent with reality. Several countries apply their laws to their citizens, even if they aren’t in their own country. For example ”Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside.” (https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/us-citizens-and-resident-aliens-abroad https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/us-c...) Other example: the “Hague invasion act” which authorizes the US president to invade Europe in order to liberate US citizens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...) Third example: many countries prosecute their citizens for child pornography, even if the crime happened outside their borders (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/emergencies/arrest-detention/crimes-against-minors.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-tra...: ”U.S. citizens are subject to the laws of foreign countries. Furthermore, some laws are prosecutable in the United States regardless of local law”)
    - jakeogh 9y ago
      If I am in my country, I am only bound by the laws in my country. Sure I can piss off another country (violate their blasphemy laws for example) and then I better remember to not go there.
      - emodendroket 9y ago
        Not if an extradition treaty applies.
        jakeogh 9y ago
        Extradition for? Doing something that is legal in my country while in my country?
        emodendroket 9y ago
        Yes, that is possible. I can't imagine the US is going to extradite anyone for violating the GDPR, but there is no principle barring it. Kim Dotcom's case is probably of interest here.

So, no?

teraflop 9y ago

HN certainly processes IP and email addresses of individuals within the EU.

jakeogh 9y ago
So what? Countries don't get to make laws for other countries. That's the point in having markets of ideas.
- madez 9y ago
  But countries decide who to punish for what. One thing might not be unlawful in your country, but in another, and that other country can try to go after you. That fact is rather boring and well-established. What matters is how the other country enforces the punishment.
  - zenhack 9y ago
    The thing is, the EU doesn't have sovereignty outside of Europe. If I actually have presence in the EU, or do business with the EU, that's one thing. But they can't tell some rando with a blog living in Boston to delete comments any more than North Korea can pass a law banning making fun of Kim Jong Un in Berlin. They can huff and puff, but at the end of the day they just don't have the authority.
    - madez 9y ago
      Any jurisdiction can "tell you things" and judge you, even if it's not your own. Admittingly, without cooperation with your jurisdiction, the EU jurisdiction cannot enforce a meassure if you don't have any presence under EU jurisdiction. However, if your jurisdiction cooperates with the EU jurisdiction, or if you eventually have some kind of presence in the EU, like traveling, they can go after you.
- zie 9y ago
  IANAL but I agree. If an entirely US based company was found guilty in a court of law in the EU, but has no business interests in EU, and has no assets of any kind, then the most the EU could do is ask the US politely to do something about the company FOR THEM. the US would have no requirement (unless there is some treaty around this I'm unaware of) to do anything about it. If they had assets of some kind in the EU country, they could capture those assets presumably. But from what I understand with the GDPR at least at the beginning of this, is the EU govt will first try to work with the company to help them comply, before going to such drastic measures as courts and seizing assets. I imagine the large giants like Facebook, etc will just negotiate through their army of lawyers to minimize the effects of GDPR as much as possible, and delay as long as possible. Before ultimately implementing ~ 1/2 of the best intentions behind the GDPR in about a decade or so.
- Someone 9y ago
  Nice idea, but not 100% consistent with reality. Several countries apply their laws to their citizens, even if they aren’t in their own country. For example ”Your worldwide income is subject to U.S. income tax, regardless of where you reside.” (https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/us-citizens-and-resident-aliens-abroad https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/us-c...) Other example: the “Hague invasion act” which authorizes the US president to invade Europe in order to liberate US citizens (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Protection_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...) Third example: many countries prosecute their citizens for child pornography, even if the crime happened outside their borders (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/emergencies/arrest-detention/crimes-against-minors.html https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-tra...: ”U.S. citizens are subject to the laws of foreign countries. Furthermore, some laws are prosecutable in the United States regardless of local law”)
  - jakeogh 9y ago
    If I am in my country, I am only bound by the laws in my country. Sure I can piss off another country (violate their blasphemy laws for example) and then I better remember to not go there.
    - emodendroket 9y ago
      Not if an extradition treaty applies.
      - jakeogh 9y ago
        Extradition for? Doing something that is legal in my country while in my country?
        emodendroket 9y ago
        Yes, that is possible. I can't imagine the US is going to extradite anyone for violating the GDPR, but there is no principle barring it. Kim Dotcom's case is probably of interest here.