5 ms·

Ask HN: What can I do if someone dupes me into working for free?

• david927 9y ago
  I would talk to a lawyer.
• dugluak 9y ago
  wow, you should at least mention the URL and the company name here.
  • greenmanhatten 9y ago
    I really would do that but right now giving benefit of doubt ... but want to know my options
    • LeoSolaris 9y ago
      Talk to a lawyer before disclosing that sort of information! You don't want to be hit with slander charges.
      • bonniemuffin 9y ago
        Slander is oral speech; libel is the one you're looking for. My understanding is that a statement has to be false in order to be libel, but I wouldn't advise the poster to take legal advice from a rando on HN like me.
        • deathanatos 9y ago
          Which I always use [this scene][1] from Spider-Man to remember: Peter Parker: Spider-Man wasn't trying to attack the city, he was trying to save it. That's slander. J. Jonah Jameson: It is not! I resent that! Slander is spoken. In print, it's libel. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcM1kTZm-nM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcM1kTZm-nM
          • nisse72 9y ago
            Etymology is your friend here: Libel has roots in the latin for "document". Think of "library".
• LeoSolaris 9y ago
  Build the pages on your own servers and use server-side code that would break the page if it wasn't present. On the plus side, you now know that you do not want to work for that company! As for what you can do about what has already happened, definitely consult a lawyer if you feel it is work perusing. It may be worth taking to small claims.
  • greenmanhatten 9y ago
    That’s a good idea .. should not have committed the code but hosted on my server. Will keep in mind for future.
• peterkelly 9y ago
  When he inevitably comes back to you wanting changes, refuse to do so until you receive payment for work done so far. Make sure that a suitably solid contract is in place for future work.
  • TrainedMonkey 9y ago
    Or he could dupe someone else into making changes as a take home interview homework...
    • tboyd47 9y ago
      The joke's on him when he gets 5 different UI frameworks on his page that way.
      • SteveNuts 9y ago
        That's probably already the case.
• corey_moncure 9y ago
  What terms did you agree to before making the webpage? If you didn't license them to use your code or give them ownership outright, you probably have copyright and they are probably in violation of your copyright if you can prove they misappropriated your code wholesale.
• RobertRoberts 9y ago
  Cheap lesson learned. We have all been burned. You may spend more time trying to recoupe anything from this. Others have advised similar, write it off, he's a bad customer. Later, if he wants changes you have a few options: 1) Do the work and keep in safe, and send a screen shot. OR 2) Ask for payment up front, and back pay. Then collect before giving anything over. Edit: Call him on the phone, leave a message and be totally honest, "I feel you are dodging my communication to avoid paying me". If he's honest, he will pay up, and even be ashamed and embarrassed. If he's dishonest, you'll get nothing, at least you will know for certain either way.
• JSeymourATL 9y ago
  > What can I do in this case? You can simply Move ON. Lesson learned. Don't expend any more time/money/energy on these clowns!
  • nautical 9y ago
    True to that, but feel a bit violated.
    • JSeymourATL 9y ago
      I've been there, the PAIN is real. You can handle it. It's just a little blip in the Grand Scheme of Things. Utilize this pain as a call to action. Focus on stuff you can control. Re-Set your priorities. Now get in gear.
• gnode 9y ago
  If you believe you are legally entitled to money (you agreed upon a payment) or didn't assign copyright, you can sue them. I don't know where you are, but in the UK for example, the small claims court handles cases like this (up to £10,000 of damages), and it's a case of filling out a form and sending it off, you don't need to have a lawyer but it's sometimes advisable. From the Intellectual Property Enterprise Court guide: "The IPEC small claims track is designed to be used by parties who do not have a legal representative acting for them. Accordingly it has more simplified procedures than a standard civil claim...". I would advise looking at what small claims options your jurisdiction provides.
• mmanfrin 9y ago
  They did not pay you for your work, therefore the work is yours and they have stolen it. They are in violation of your copyrighted works. Speak to a lawyer and seek damages.
• kp1 9y ago
  Do you have a contract with said company? What are those terms? Can you prove you made it 100%? The code and graphics? A copyright case is long and expensive so it may not be worth it to chase bad or no money. Pro bono maybe, but I doubt that too. I hope you learned a valuable lesson tho.
• TrainedMonkey 9y ago
  How much do you care about it? Options are: * Let it go. * Keep contacting the founder hoping this is just a misunderstanding. * Be proactive. For option 3 you would want to write down timeline and gather all of the evidence (commit logs, website screenshots, communications with the founder). After that you can let him know that he is using your work without permissions, submit a small claim court case, or talk to a lawyer.
  • epicureanideal 9y ago
    I vote for small claims court. Quick to do, cheap (no lawyer needed), and can award enough to cover your costs, and should teach them a lesson.
• debt 9y ago
  Well if ya have $1200 to burn, you should sue them. It’s a good exercise because if you’re freelancing, you should get use to it. It’s highly effective to be litigious if you’re freelancing. ALWAYS protect yourself and your work or, as you can see, you’re worthless.
• deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
• tombrossman 9y ago
  Treat this like you would any other copyright infringement (presumably you didn't sign anything giving them ownership of the work or you would not be asking HN?). Find out where the site is being hosted, usually through a WHOIS search, and contact the hosting company's abuse department. Try a web search for a template of a takedown notice appropriate for the jurisdiction. For example, if the site is hosted in the USA you can send the host a standard DMCA takedown notice. Make sure the wording is correct. You can go to a lawyer for reassurance (and if you can afford one), but for a simple copyright infringement notice sent to a web host, this is not super complicated and you can get it done yourself. Obviously you are 'burning a bridge' here with the company that interviewed you, and you will never do work for them again, but they are treating you badly and it's OK to get more aggressive in your dealings with them. If they later claim this was a misunderstanding and remove your webpage, go ahead and invoice them at full market rate for the work anyway. They may tell you no but it's worth a try. These are all good skills to have if this happens to you again.
  • greenmanhatten 9y ago
    Thanks, that was a very practical advise!
  • deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
• bberenberg 9y ago
  We ask candidates to do real technical work for us as part of the interview process. We also pay them for it, and have them sign a contractor agreement which includes transfer of IP. Shitty that these guys didn't seem to offer you that level of respect.
• huebnerob 9y ago
  Are you entitled to be paid for your work? Yes. Do you have a case against them? Probably yes. Is it worth your time? Probably not. I'm guessing we're talking about a pretty small code test that took you maybe a day tops, in that case it's really not worth putting yourself through the ringer just to prove a point. Yes, they're assholes for doing this, but as many have said before, the best revenge is your own success without them.
• staunch 9y ago
  You could choose to accept payment in the form of a life lesson. This jagoff just taught you that there are jagoffs like him in the world. Maybe this will save you from a much more damaging jagoff in the future. It might be nice to stop this jagoff from being a jagoff to other people but it's probably not worth the stress.
• InclinedPlane 9y ago
  Send them an invoice.
  • smileysteve 9y ago
    With terms for 30 days before additional fees kick in
• pjc50 9y ago
  Negative review on Glassdoor?
• drenvuk 9y ago
  This doesn't add to the conversation but I'd really like to know the website.
  • tbirrell 9y ago
    We can give it the HN hug of death.
• darepublic 9y ago
  That's why your code should have included a backdoor. You missed a golden opportunity here.
  • Afforess 9y ago
    Don't do this. This is a felony in the states. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_Fraud_and_Abuse_Act )
    • garyfirestorm 9y ago
      Have some function in the code which will scramble the whole thing at a later date. If you actively maintain the code, keep pushing the date. If they pay you for your work, remove this function. This is a 'security feature' which you could deploy in future situations. I do not believe this particular implementation would be violation of any laws.
• deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
• SabertoothLamb 9y ago
  Department of labor, "employment fraud"
• gamblor956 9y ago
  File a DMCA takedown notice with the webhost, and file a case in small claims court for the amount you should believe you should be paid for the work. small claims filing should cost about $25-100 to file, depending on the county. Small claims court caps the damages to a few thousand, but no lawyers are required and many small claims courts don't even allow parties to bring lawyers.
• vivekd 9y ago
  You can sue. I'm not sure where you are but most places have something called small claims court where you can sue for small amounts of money without hiring a lawyer. Most small claims court don't have the authority to make them remove the website though, all they can do is make them pay you.
• mchannon 9y ago
  Lots of good advice here. Assuming it was actually recent (as in a couple of months or less), consider actually registering the copyright on the webpage with the US govt. If your work ends up enabling a wildly successful funding event, you'll be unable to get much more than the federal filing fee if you sue the company for copyright infringement. Unless it's a registered copyright, at which point you can take them to the cleaners. I believe it's $200 +/- to register, and there are restrictions which may or may not apply in your particular case.
• crististm 9y ago
  This guy had a similar experience. I think your options depend on how much you think you can recover. https://youtu.be/vtcXBYSSElQ https://youtu.be/vtcXBYSSElQ
• mdoar 9y ago
  It's a life lesson. You won't make that mistake again. No contract? No recourse really If it's more than 100 hours work you might think about legal action. Less than 100 hours perhaps pull a face when other people mention the company and tell the story off the record, definitely not recorded. The company's reputation will come back to affect them
• turc1656 9y ago
  Make sure you screenshot everything and save all communications. Try putting delivery and read receipts on all emails so they can't claim they didn't receive/read them. Make any calls to anyone whose number you have. If this was through a recruiter, contact the recruiter. Yes, the recruiter technically represents the company and not you, but at least you can then make another claim at communication. If you still can't get a response, certified mail or something like that to the business's registered agent address (which they are required to have by law). Then they cannot claim they did not receive communication and will almost certainly be forced to respond in some fashion, even if it is a formal denial. I also assume you have proof that they either requested this of you or that you have all the raw files used for developing the site that a mere visitor to the site wouldn't have, yes? If so, register that with the copyright office immediately so they cannot do so. They will probably claim a "misunderstanding" to which you can request that they either produce the paper which you signed granting them the rights to your work (which I assume you didn't sign anything) or the financial record showing that they paid you for it (which they obviously did not do). The big question is this - did you do this as a project at home as part of the interview? I assume you did since I doubt you would be expected to do it right there on the spot, but I could be wrong. If it was on their computer systems, it becomes much more difficult to lay claim since they own everything done on their computer systems. I assume this was done on your free time at home to go along with a fact to face interview and you submitted the finished product before the in-person interview.
• kapauldo 9y ago
  Consider it tuition and move on.