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> New level of respect for Elon. Also for me. Though in the opposite direction than I assume for you. Unless he also trows away his iPhone and changes his star

> New level of respect for Elon. Also for me. Though in the opposite direction than I assume for you. Unless he also trows away his iPhone and changes his start page from Google to Duck Duck Go, it's a pretty irrational move that I'm surprised to see from Musk.

rhizome 9y ago
What's irrational is to expect people to share your principles of extricating themselves from all logging.
- hanspeter 9y ago
  I don't have principles of extricating my self from all logging. I'm pointing out the hypocritical in seeing a big problem on sharing data with Facebook while having no issue with sharing data with Apple, Google, Twitter etc.
  - rhizome 9y ago
    On what basis do you see hypocrisy? Could it be merely that they see Facebook as the threat they want to deal with now?
  - briandear 9y ago
    Apple isn't packaging and selling your data. They don't even look at it. iCloud is about the same as Amazon S3 -- it's just a storage system. They aren't doing analytics on your data to sell you things. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/
    - hanspeter 9y ago
      Facebook does also not sell your data. Facebook sell your eyeballs. They do however give away your data for free to 3rd party developers as does Apple, Google and many other.
danielh96 9y ago
Facebook has been shown to be completely careless with securing your data - this wasn't even a data breach, the functionality to get all the data was a part of their API. Apple on the other hand has been very publically proactive about protecting your data. I feel like this is more a reaction to the complete lack of responsibility Facebook had for keeping your data secure rather than the collection of data in the first place.
- hanspeter 9y ago
  1) It has been like this for 10 years and it has been documented in plain sight. Also in this time frame user data has been progressively better protected. Data is better protected on Facebook now than it has even been. So why this outcry in 2018? 2) How does Apple protect 3rd party apps from collecting data? iOS apps even has the option of tracking your location - something that FB apps never had as far as I recall.
  - oarsinsync 9y ago
    1) The perspective of "I have nothing to hide, I have no issue sharing all my data with FaceBook" has been very prevalent for a long time, as the consequences of that happening on a large scale are not obvious at a glance. It's a nuanced topic with too many variables. It takes a large enough event that can be (correctly or not) attributed to this in order to gain peoples attention. Foreign adversary potentially using this information and tooling to influence domestic elections is a large enough event to result in that coming to the public eye. 2) Facebook, Messenger and WhatsApp all have "Always" permissions options for Location Services on iOS. Instagram has "While using" or "Never" only. Wouldn't expect this to be substantially different on Android.
    - hanspeter 9y ago
      1) It's irrational. Facebook as an advertising platform is likely much more effective than what you will gain by crunching the limited data collected through apps. Googles advertising platform has other data points than Facebook but is equally potent in targeted marketing. However the biggest irrational hypocrisy in this shitstorm is that TV ads has always been known to be very effective in influencing elections yet no one has tweeted #deletetv. 2) Since Facebook, Messenger and WhatsApp are all 3rd party apps on Apple's platform, you just proved my point. Though I'm not sure you intented to?

rhizome 9y ago

What's irrational is to expect people to share your principles of extricating themselves from all logging.

hanspeter 9y ago
I don't have principles of extricating my self from all logging. I'm pointing out the hypocritical in seeing a big problem on sharing data with Facebook while having no issue with sharing data with Apple, Google, Twitter etc.
- rhizome 9y ago
  On what basis do you see hypocrisy? Could it be merely that they see Facebook as the threat they want to deal with now?
- briandear 9y ago
  Apple isn't packaging and selling your data. They don't even look at it. iCloud is about the same as Amazon S3 -- it's just a storage system. They aren't doing analytics on your data to sell you things. https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/ https://www.apple.com/legal/privacy/en-ww/
  - hanspeter 9y ago
    Facebook does also not sell your data. Facebook sell your eyeballs. They do however give away your data for free to 3rd party developers as does Apple, Google and many other.

danielh96 9y ago

Facebook has been shown to be completely careless with securing your data - this wasn't even a data breach, the functionality to get all the data was a part of their API. Apple on the other hand has been very publically proactive about protecting your data. I feel like this is more a reaction to the complete lack of responsibility Facebook had for keeping your data secure rather than the collection of data in the first place.

hanspeter 9y ago
1) It has been like this for 10 years and it has been documented in plain sight. Also in this time frame user data has been progressively better protected. Data is better protected on Facebook now than it has even been. So why this outcry in 2018? 2) How does Apple protect 3rd party apps from collecting data? iOS apps even has the option of tracking your location - something that FB apps never had as far as I recall.
- oarsinsync 9y ago
  1) The perspective of "I have nothing to hide, I have no issue sharing all my data with FaceBook" has been very prevalent for a long time, as the consequences of that happening on a large scale are not obvious at a glance. It's a nuanced topic with too many variables. It takes a large enough event that can be (correctly or not) attributed to this in order to gain peoples attention. Foreign adversary potentially using this information and tooling to influence domestic elections is a large enough event to result in that coming to the public eye. 2) Facebook, Messenger and WhatsApp all have "Always" permissions options for Location Services on iOS. Instagram has "While using" or "Never" only. Wouldn't expect this to be substantially different on Android.
  - hanspeter 9y ago
    1) It's irrational. Facebook as an advertising platform is likely much more effective than what you will gain by crunching the limited data collected through apps. Googles advertising platform has other data points than Facebook but is equally potent in targeted marketing. However the biggest irrational hypocrisy in this shitstorm is that TV ads has always been known to be very effective in influencing elections yet no one has tweeted #deletetv. 2) Since Facebook, Messenger and WhatsApp are all 3rd party apps on Apple's platform, you just proved my point. Though I'm not sure you intented to?