2 ms·

They, and you, and all of us, are allowed to discriminate, and we do so all the time. However, we have made laws that prohibit certain kinds of discrimination

by leot 9y ago

They, and you, and all of us, are allowed to discriminate, and we do so all the time. However, we have made laws that prohibit certain kinds of discrimination against "protected classes", e.g. based on sex and race. Being an advocate of gun rights is not a protected class.

js8 9y ago
I don't think you understand my argument. I am talking precisely about discrimination against what you call "protected classes" (actually, I don't think the legislation is class oriented, but let's put that aside). Companies are not allowed to do that, but individuals are allowed to discriminate even "protected classes". I can freely choose not to associate with black people, for instance. And that is a good thing. So even today there is a legal distinction between individuals and institutions. And in a certain sense, "advocate of gun rights" is a protected class, because you have also non-discrimination (I would assume, like most civilized countries) on the basis of political opinion.
- leot 9y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group Actually, political opinion is not protected against discrimination. Otherwise I could create a political party that advocated, say, the extermination of a particular group, and then if you refused to hire me (because I'm obviously an asshat if I hold this view) I could sue you.
  - js8 9y ago
    Ah, thanks, I didn't know that. However, it appears that some U.S. states do actually protect based on political affiliation. This is decided in court anyway, so the scenario you point out, while plausible, is only theoretical.
    - leot 9y ago
      Yeah. Though I deeply disagree with political affiliation being a protected group (at least in part because you get to choose your political views). In any case, there isn't yet a gun-rights-maximalist party against which YouTube could be prohibited from discriminating.
      - js8 9y ago
        > Though I deeply disagree with political affiliation being a protected group I was born in a totalitarian country, and so I don't find "you can choose your political views" very convincing. What about religious views? You can choose these as well.
        leot 9y ago
        Yeah, I'm not a fan of religion actually being a protected group. It probably is there for historical reasons, when it was harder to "get out" of one's religion. Freedom of speech and political expression is very different from your right to not be discriminated against for expressing your political views. I will defend your right to say "poor people should not be able to get healthcare", but having this political opinion provides important information on your character, which seems very legitimate to consider when making, e.g., a hiring decision. There aren't easy answers here, and laws and policy are blunt instruments that will usually have some unintended and undesirable consequences.

by leot 9y ago

js8 9y ago

I don't think you understand my argument. I am talking precisely about discrimination against what you call "protected classes" (actually, I don't think the legislation is class oriented, but let's put that aside). Companies are not allowed to do that, but individuals are allowed to discriminate even "protected classes". I can freely choose not to associate with black people, for instance. And that is a good thing. So even today there is a legal distinction between individuals and institutions. And in a certain sense, "advocate of gun rights" is a protected class, because you have also non-discrimination (I would assume, like most civilized countries) on the basis of political opinion.

leot 9y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_group Actually, political opinion is not protected against discrimination. Otherwise I could create a political party that advocated, say, the extermination of a particular group, and then if you refused to hire me (because I'm obviously an asshat if I hold this view) I could sue you.
- js8 9y ago
  Ah, thanks, I didn't know that. However, it appears that some U.S. states do actually protect based on political affiliation. This is decided in court anyway, so the scenario you point out, while plausible, is only theoretical.
  - leot 9y ago
    Yeah. Though I deeply disagree with political affiliation being a protected group (at least in part because you get to choose your political views). In any case, there isn't yet a gun-rights-maximalist party against which YouTube could be prohibited from discriminating.
    - js8 9y ago
      > Though I deeply disagree with political affiliation being a protected group I was born in a totalitarian country, and so I don't find "you can choose your political views" very convincing. What about religious views? You can choose these as well.
      - leot 9y ago
        Yeah, I'm not a fan of religion actually being a protected group. It probably is there for historical reasons, when it was harder to "get out" of one's religion. Freedom of speech and political expression is very different from your right to not be discriminated against for expressing your political views. I will defend your right to say "poor people should not be able to get healthcare", but having this political opinion provides important information on your character, which seems very legitimate to consider when making, e.g., a hiring decision. There aren't easy answers here, and laws and policy are blunt instruments that will usually have some unintended and undesirable consequences.