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> "while slightly missing the fact that society as a whole always has to be the enabler for what they do - even when it appears to be resisting them!" Even whe

> "while slightly missing the fact that society as a whole always has to be the enabler for what they do - even when it appears to be resisting them!" Even when society was drowning and burning them to death for heresy? There are a multitude of examples of this, if you care to read histories of the Inquisition. I will give you a starting point—Google "Giordano Bruno" > "They need to accept that maybe something in their (enlightenment) ideas and way of approaching things is part of the problem." :/ > "but let's ask WHY intelligent people are doing that: because they believe that Pinker (et al) have a dangerous subtext, or that their ideas trend in a specific direction." The reasonable answer is because they're highly ideologically motivated, not nearly as intelligent and certainly not as ethical as Pinker.

thraway180306 9y ago
burning them to death for heresy Do you have any examples of actual burning? Of someone who was going around enlightening and got burned for science. Only example I know, Giordano Bruno was as much a scientist as today's theologians and Templeton-sponsored cosmologists; got on the hook for spreading pantheism. Galileo and Copernicus besides not being burnt were also wrong. Church decided to shun them not because of their philosophy (unlike Bruno they were doing surprisingly little theology for the ire that met them), but calculations rightly evaluated to be wrong. In case of Galileo also obnoxious activism asking for persecution. The heresy part came in because of dogma that proper science is god-inspired and thus should be at least somewhat reasonable, which this stuff wasn't at the time (recall, Newton was an alchemist first, the first scientist a second). I can perfectly imagine stuff like this going on in today's groupthink grant system, between suicides of tenured faculty and Prasher turned taxi driver despite Nobel-grade work. ideologically motivated Do you realize that this is tautological? Where do you think ideologies come from if not from reason? Do you, in your arbitrary intelligence, realize that every presumption came to be for a reason? Phenomenon of tradition illustrates that pretty well, even if original reasoning was lost.
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- whatyoucantsay 9y ago
  There is a difference between empiricism, as in testing ideas, and ideologically motivated behavior that involves only seeking only information that can buttress one's current beliefs. > Only example I know, Giordano Bruno... You know this example because I just pointed it out to you. There are many others, but I'm done doing your homework for you.
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thraway180306 9y ago

burning them to death for heresy Do you have any examples of actual burning? Of someone who was going around enlightening and got burned for science. Only example I know, Giordano Bruno was as much a scientist as today's theologians and Templeton-sponsored cosmologists; got on the hook for spreading pantheism. Galileo and Copernicus besides not being burnt were also wrong. Church decided to shun them not because of their philosophy (unlike Bruno they were doing surprisingly little theology for the ire that met them), but calculations rightly evaluated to be wrong. In case of Galileo also obnoxious activism asking for persecution. The heresy part came in because of dogma that proper science is god-inspired and thus should be at least somewhat reasonable, which this stuff wasn't at the time (recall, Newton was an alchemist first, the first scientist a second). I can perfectly imagine stuff like this going on in today's groupthink grant system, between suicides of tenured faculty and Prasher turned taxi driver despite Nobel-grade work. ideologically motivated Do you realize that this is tautological? Where do you think ideologies come from if not from reason? Do you, in your arbitrary intelligence, realize that every presumption came to be for a reason? Phenomenon of tradition illustrates that pretty well, even if original reasoning was lost.

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whatyoucantsay 9y ago
There is a difference between empiricism, as in testing ideas, and ideologically motivated behavior that involves only seeking only information that can buttress one's current beliefs. > Only example I know, Giordano Bruno... You know this example because I just pointed it out to you. There are many others, but I'm done doing your homework for you.
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