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Telegram is awful. First, it doesn't have logins and passwords so you cannot even log in without having a phone nearby. Second, it collects and uploads all of y

Telegram is awful. First, it doesn't have logins and passwords so you cannot even log in without having a phone nearby. Second, it collects and uploads all of your contacts to Durov's servers. Third, all the messages are stored on the servers too so Durov can read them at his spare time.

Anon1096 9y ago
On reading people's messages, though it may not be a popular sentiment on HN, "Administering a mail host is sort of like being a nurse; there's a brief period at the start when the thought of seeing people's privates might be vaguely titillating in a theoretical sense, but that sort of thing doesn't last long when it's up against the daily reality of shit, piss, blood, and vomit. Now that I think about it, administering a mail host is exactly like being a nurse, only people die slightly less often."
jhasse 9y ago
> First, it doesn't have logins and passwords so you cannot even log in without having a phone nearby. You can set-up a password. Also you can login with a Telegram device nearby, e.g. a tablet or laptop. No phone required. > Second, it collects and uploads all of your contacts to Durov's servers. No, you can deny access or don't use the app from your phone. Contacts can be added by username, too. > Third, all the messages are stored on the servers too so Durov can read them at his spare time. No, the so-called secret chats are end-to-end encrypted and not stored on their servers.
- ryanlol 9y ago
  >No, the so-called secret chats are end-to-end encrypted and not stored on their servers. This feels dishonest to me. Nobody ever uses the secret chats because Telegram devs have deliberately made them impossible to use.
  - jhasse 9y ago
    I would guess that usage is definitely below 1%, but it is possible to use them and I am using them from time to time without problems.
    - ryanlol 9y ago
      The existence of optional secret chats used by nobody, not implemented by apps and actively discouraged by UI, seems like a particularly shit excuse for what Telegram is doing.
      - jhasse 9y ago
        > used by nobody I use it, so it isn't nobody. > not implemented by apps It's implemented by the Android and iOS apps, which are the most used ones. > actively discouraged by UI How is this actively discouraging? https://img.gadgethacks.com/img/original/18/79/63638325770104/0/636383257701041879.jpg https://img.gadgethacks.com/img/original/18/79/6363832577010...
        ryanlol 9y ago
        https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-secure-is-telegram https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-secure-is-telegram >Telegram is more secure than mass market messengers like WhatsApp and Line Why are you defending these fraudsters? >I use it, so it isn't nobody. Don't play silly word games, you just said "I would guess that usage is definitely below 1%" >It's implemented by the Android and iOS apps, which are the most used ones. Ah, so it'll only fail to work 30% of the time? That's not terrible UX at all. >How is this actively discouraging? Why do you have to press a button to chat securely, when the "less secure" WhatsApp does not require that? Is it because of Durovs superior encryption technology? You simply can't justify that button.
        jhasse 9y ago
        > Why are you defending these fraudsters? Them being fraudsters doesn't make all of your allegations true. > Don't play silly word games, you just said "I would guess that usage is definitely below 1%" So? 0.1% is below 1% and would still correspend to ~200000 users. That is NOT nobody. > Ah, so it'll only fail to work 30% of the time? That's not terrible UX at all. Source for the 30%? > Why do you have to press a button to chat securely, when the "less secure" WhatsApp does not require that? It's a trade-off. WhatsApp / Telegram's secure-chats are lacking other features Telegram's non-secure chats have.
  - notsrg 9y ago
    What do you mean "deliberately [...] impossible to use"? Select a contact and choose "Start secret chat", wait for the keys to exchange and then the entire experience is identical to unencrypted chats.
    - ryanlol 9y ago
      Come on, you know very well that most clients don't support this. And yeah, having to click "Start secret chat" is deliberately making things difficult. Signal or Whatsapp don't require that.
      - jhasse 9y ago
        > Come on, you know very well that most clients don't support this. supported: Telegram for Android Telegram for iPhone and iPad Telegram for WP Telegram for macOS not supported: Telegram for Windows/Mac/Linux Telegram for Firefox OS Telegram Web-version Telegram Chrome app I guess we have a different definition for "most".
        deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
- codedokode 9y ago
  I might be wrong, but the password you have mentioned is either a "local password" that is used to encrypt locally stored data, or a "cloud password" which is used as a second factor in 2FA. To log in you have to either confirm your number (receive SMS or a call) or to give a code sent to your previously logged in device. There is no traditional login and password as far as I know.
  - jhasse 9y ago
    You're right, I've should have made it more clear: The password is only in addition to the phone number + login code, it can't replace it.

Anon1096 9y ago

On reading people's messages, though it may not be a popular sentiment on HN, "Administering a mail host is sort of like being a nurse; there's a brief period at the start when the thought of seeing people's privates might be vaguely titillating in a theoretical sense, but that sort of thing doesn't last long when it's up against the daily reality of shit, piss, blood, and vomit. Now that I think about it, administering a mail host is exactly like being a nurse, only people die slightly less often."

jhasse 9y ago

> First, it doesn't have logins and passwords so you cannot even log in without having a phone nearby. You can set-up a password. Also you can login with a Telegram device nearby, e.g. a tablet or laptop. No phone required. > Second, it collects and uploads all of your contacts to Durov's servers. No, you can deny access or don't use the app from your phone. Contacts can be added by username, too. > Third, all the messages are stored on the servers too so Durov can read them at his spare time. No, the so-called secret chats are end-to-end encrypted and not stored on their servers.

ryanlol 9y ago
>No, the so-called secret chats are end-to-end encrypted and not stored on their servers. This feels dishonest to me. Nobody ever uses the secret chats because Telegram devs have deliberately made them impossible to use.
- jhasse 9y ago
  I would guess that usage is definitely below 1%, but it is possible to use them and I am using them from time to time without problems.
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    The existence of optional secret chats used by nobody, not implemented by apps and actively discouraged by UI, seems like a particularly shit excuse for what Telegram is doing.
    - jhasse 9y ago
      > used by nobody I use it, so it isn't nobody. > not implemented by apps It's implemented by the Android and iOS apps, which are the most used ones. > actively discouraged by UI How is this actively discouraging? https://img.gadgethacks.com/img/original/18/79/63638325770104/0/636383257701041879.jpg https://img.gadgethacks.com/img/original/18/79/6363832577010...
      - ryanlol 9y ago
        https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-secure-is-telegram https://telegram.org/faq#q-how-secure-is-telegram >Telegram is more secure than mass market messengers like WhatsApp and Line Why are you defending these fraudsters? >I use it, so it isn't nobody. Don't play silly word games, you just said "I would guess that usage is definitely below 1%" >It's implemented by the Android and iOS apps, which are the most used ones. Ah, so it'll only fail to work 30% of the time? That's not terrible UX at all. >How is this actively discouraging? Why do you have to press a button to chat securely, when the "less secure" WhatsApp does not require that? Is it because of Durovs superior encryption technology? You simply can't justify that button.
        jhasse 9y ago
        > Why are you defending these fraudsters? Them being fraudsters doesn't make all of your allegations true. > Don't play silly word games, you just said "I would guess that usage is definitely below 1%" So? 0.1% is below 1% and would still correspend to ~200000 users. That is NOT nobody. > Ah, so it'll only fail to work 30% of the time? That's not terrible UX at all. Source for the 30%? > Why do you have to press a button to chat securely, when the "less secure" WhatsApp does not require that? It's a trade-off. WhatsApp / Telegram's secure-chats are lacking other features Telegram's non-secure chats have.
- notsrg 9y ago
  What do you mean "deliberately [...] impossible to use"? Select a contact and choose "Start secret chat", wait for the keys to exchange and then the entire experience is identical to unencrypted chats.
  - ryanlol 9y ago
    Come on, you know very well that most clients don't support this. And yeah, having to click "Start secret chat" is deliberately making things difficult. Signal or Whatsapp don't require that.
    - jhasse 9y ago
      > Come on, you know very well that most clients don't support this. supported: Telegram for Android Telegram for iPhone and iPad Telegram for WP Telegram for macOS not supported: Telegram for Windows/Mac/Linux Telegram for Firefox OS Telegram Web-version Telegram Chrome app I guess we have a different definition for "most".
      - deleted 9y ago
        [deleted]
codedokode 9y ago
I might be wrong, but the password you have mentioned is either a "local password" that is used to encrypt locally stored data, or a "cloud password" which is used as a second factor in 2FA. To log in you have to either confirm your number (receive SMS or a call) or to give a code sent to your previously logged in device. There is no traditional login and password as far as I know.
- jhasse 9y ago
  You're right, I've should have made it more clear: The password is only in addition to the phone number + login code, it can't replace it.