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I'm reacting to the phrase "they're criminals" - I've had clients, really, really valuable clients, ask me to spam for them. I've had to say NO, unequivocally a

I'm reacting to the phrase "they're criminals" - I've had clients, really, really valuable clients, ask me to spam for them. I've had to say NO, unequivocally and awkwardly. Then, I've had them ask for me to build tools that could help them mangage email campaigns... I build those tools, and I know what they could do with those tools. I hope they don't and I counsel them about what they can do and cannot do. I'm OK with this the same way I'm OK with telling them they're free to go over the speed limit in a car I built for them if they want. It's their choice and I believe there's a difference between occasional speeding and reckless endangerment the same way there's a difference between the occasional campaign from the boise real estate lady who put her stack of business cards on her email list and the true BULK spammer...

peteforde 16y ago
Just as a point of clarification, I believe that marketers who send out millions of emails are bad people. They actively avoid doing the right thing, and have no interest in making anything better so long as they are making money. If you read what I actually wrote, I did not suggest that accidental spammers (ie. your clients and mine) are bad people. Please understand that you are misquoting me. I further believe that it's up to folks like you and me to be patient and help people do the right thing when possible.
- ericabiz 16y ago
  "Just as a point of clarification, I believe that marketers who send out millions of emails are bad people." Better be careful who you paint with that wide brush. I know marketers with legitimate opt-in lists of 250,000+ people. It's not how many emails you send -- it's about making sure that you're sending those emails to people who want to receive your emails, and who have opted in to do so.
  - peteforde 16y ago
    Totally fair. I did say "millions" but I concede to your point.
- rubyrescue 16y ago
  OK, since you're now accusing me of misquoting you and i'm sure that i'm not, I want to be clear: We're not in agreement at all. I think you're now trying to rewrite what you said to make us in agreement. I was responding to the letter of what you wrote "they're criminals" and the spirit of what you wrote "they're boobs", and I don't think I misconstrued either. I'd further add that it's the "people who get it" vs the "people who don't" attitude of the OP that spurned my response, not the defense of accidental spammers.
  - peteforde 16y ago
    Chad, I haven't changed a letter of the post since it first went up. You're referring to a paragraph where I am describing parasitic marketers that don't care about whether they are doing something wrong. In the very next paragraph, I say: "What of the accidental spammer, though? How do we break them of their regrettable bad habits? Can they be shown a better way?" I specifically stop to differentiate between the two very different personalities I'm discussing. If you are offended by my assertion that there are people who don't know that they are spamming, then yes — we disagree... and you haven't worked with the people in question. In Canada, spammers are criminals. Elsewhere, they're just selfish assholes. Some people mean well but don't know they are being assholes. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but chances are this article wasn't written for you.

peteforde 16y ago

Just as a point of clarification, I believe that marketers who send out millions of emails are bad people. They actively avoid doing the right thing, and have no interest in making anything better so long as they are making money. If you read what I actually wrote, I did not suggest that accidental spammers (ie. your clients and mine) are bad people. Please understand that you are misquoting me. I further believe that it's up to folks like you and me to be patient and help people do the right thing when possible.

ericabiz 16y ago
"Just as a point of clarification, I believe that marketers who send out millions of emails are bad people." Better be careful who you paint with that wide brush. I know marketers with legitimate opt-in lists of 250,000+ people. It's not how many emails you send -- it's about making sure that you're sending those emails to people who want to receive your emails, and who have opted in to do so.
- peteforde 16y ago
  Totally fair. I did say "millions" but I concede to your point.
rubyrescue 16y ago
OK, since you're now accusing me of misquoting you and i'm sure that i'm not, I want to be clear: We're not in agreement at all. I think you're now trying to rewrite what you said to make us in agreement. I was responding to the letter of what you wrote "they're criminals" and the spirit of what you wrote "they're boobs", and I don't think I misconstrued either. I'd further add that it's the "people who get it" vs the "people who don't" attitude of the OP that spurned my response, not the defense of accidental spammers.
- peteforde 16y ago
  Chad, I haven't changed a letter of the post since it first went up. You're referring to a paragraph where I am describing parasitic marketers that don't care about whether they are doing something wrong. In the very next paragraph, I say: "What of the accidental spammer, though? How do we break them of their regrettable bad habits? Can they be shown a better way?" I specifically stop to differentiate between the two very different personalities I'm discussing. If you are offended by my assertion that there are people who don't know that they are spamming, then yes — we disagree... and you haven't worked with the people in question. In Canada, spammers are criminals. Elsewhere, they're just selfish assholes. Some people mean well but don't know they are being assholes. I'm sorry if that bothers you, but chances are this article wasn't written for you.