6 ms·

The GDPR is only a momth away, I've already sent a complaint to the local data privacy officer about Firefox' constant violations of the requirement for explici

The GDPR is only a momth away, I've already sent a complaint to the local data privacy officer about Firefox' constant violations of the requirement for explicit consent (see: CliqZ before), so let's hope the hammer swings hard this time. If Mozilla still can't see why they shouldn't automatically transmit analytics and studies for everything, they deserve to be sued into the ground. Same with Google.

jimnotgym 9y ago
Just came on to say this, but also there essful have to be explicit consent to take the data outside of the EU
dotsh 9y ago
Some people just want to see the world burn. So maybe let's delete the whole internet and get back to letters, telegrams, pidgins and encyclopaedias? No one is forcing you to use dev, nightly or anything else if it is not consistent with your faith. Especially Mozilla they made some silly things but are one of the most "privacy and shit" companies out there and they will not come to your house and beat you because you do not want to do something.
- kuschku 9y ago
  That's certainly one approach. The other approach is that, unless explicit consent is given, people are supposed to be safe. Nightly is often required because a lot of functionality for developers is only available there, e.g. custom xpi legacy addons even in FF61. It's nightly or nothing for this, and as a reminder, stable also was affected by CliqZ.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - dotsh 9y ago
    You are using Nightly "wrong" because of attachment to old extensions that will perish in June when all legacy stuff will be blocked. Nightly is only for testing out new features and it's not intended to be production ready browser... but everyone has an own use case. Yet do not beat them for wanting to change something for the better after using testing technology.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      I'm not using it for "old" extensions. Even today, every new feature you want to have in the WebExtension API needs to be implemented as a legacy extension providing this API first, then it will get tested, and then it will maybe become part of core Firefox. The official process to add apis for WebExtensions is to write a legacy extension. Which is exactly what I'm doing to support my custom extension that replaces the entire history and bookmarking system, UI and toolbars of Firefox, for which I need a custom API. I suggest you read the wiki on why nightly still supports legacy extensions before judging people.
      - dotsh 9y ago
        I'm not judging I wrote that everyone has it's own use case. My only point is don't use test version if you don't want to be tested or opt-out of it. ;)
  - throwawayReply 9y ago
    You should be using Aurora not Nightly for those features.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      Aurora does, afaik, not allow extending the WebExtension API with a custom legacy extension, this is only available in nightly.
- piyush_soni 9y ago
  Extending your argument only a bit, "No one is forcing you to use Firefox stable release version if it is not consistent with your faith". "No one is forcing you to use computers and internet if they are not consistent with your faith". I see so much irony in your statement. It's not about forcing anyone. It's about taking the web forward, and data security which Mozilla says it believes in. Nightly definitely means there could be unintentional mistakes and bugs, but does not mean it has our blanket agreement to intentionally sharing all of our private data by default.
  - dotsh 9y ago
    So how do you want take web forward without testing new things based on real life data? Did you even read what they want to do and how they are going to do it?
    - piyush_soni 9y ago
      By doing things with a clearly visible message and explicit, prior, opt-in permission, perhaps? What's so difficult about that?
      - dotsh 9y ago
        Seriously they have to? Isn't this obvious enough? When downloading TEST RELEASE you willingly accept that it will collect anonymous data and send it to them. If you do not want to test something, because you're opposed to it, do not do it. A lot of companies do that and I do not see anyone complaining about it for example Apple and macOS betas.
    - dade_ 9y ago
      I just received this email from my bank. Something like this would be nice: "Below is a link to the 2018 Annual Privacy Notice. This Notice provides details on the types of information we collect, why we collect it, and with whom we may share it. Collecting and permissible sharing of your information allows us to offer you a comprehensive range of services to help you meet your financial goals. "
- superjambo 9y ago
  Or perhaps the developers could just request consent before taking your data? I mean if that is just too difficult then what hope do they have of developing anything.
always_good 9y ago
I can only imagine how smug your smile was when you typed out "local data privacy officer" wondering how many chills you were about to send down Mozilla's spine. Lots of HNers are going to be let down in about one month.
- kuschku 9y ago
  The mills of bureaucracy run slow, I realize that. But it's the office of my local data privacy officer that has in the past sued basically every website in Germany for using the Facebook/Twitter like buttons, and won (and caused them all to use a two-click share button system). I've got trust in them that they'll act responsibly on this.
  - gkya 9y ago
    On a mailing list discussion on whether or not to add a study to a version of software put out online for testing? You're being ridiculous.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      On a foreign company that has been distributing a software in this jurisdiction that does not comply with local data privacy law, specifically the requirement for explicit notification before any tracking happens, and, starting May 8, the explicit opt-in for any kind of analytics or telemetry that may contain personally identifying data. See: about:addons using Google Analytics without cookie disclaimer or opt-out ability, CliqZ addon receiving parts of browsing history without disclaimer, or any opt-in/-out, unauthorized installation of software on a remote computer (Mr Robot case), and much more.

jimnotgym 9y ago

Just came on to say this, but also there essful have to be explicit consent to take the data outside of the EU

dotsh 9y ago

Some people just want to see the world burn. So maybe let's delete the whole internet and get back to letters, telegrams, pidgins and encyclopaedias? No one is forcing you to use dev, nightly or anything else if it is not consistent with your faith. Especially Mozilla they made some silly things but are one of the most "privacy and shit" companies out there and they will not come to your house and beat you because you do not want to do something.

kuschku 9y ago
That's certainly one approach. The other approach is that, unless explicit consent is given, people are supposed to be safe. Nightly is often required because a lot of functionality for developers is only available there, e.g. custom xpi legacy addons even in FF61. It's nightly or nothing for this, and as a reminder, stable also was affected by CliqZ.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dotsh 9y ago
  You are using Nightly "wrong" because of attachment to old extensions that will perish in June when all legacy stuff will be blocked. Nightly is only for testing out new features and it's not intended to be production ready browser... but everyone has an own use case. Yet do not beat them for wanting to change something for the better after using testing technology.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    I'm not using it for "old" extensions. Even today, every new feature you want to have in the WebExtension API needs to be implemented as a legacy extension providing this API first, then it will get tested, and then it will maybe become part of core Firefox. The official process to add apis for WebExtensions is to write a legacy extension. Which is exactly what I'm doing to support my custom extension that replaces the entire history and bookmarking system, UI and toolbars of Firefox, for which I need a custom API. I suggest you read the wiki on why nightly still supports legacy extensions before judging people.
    - dotsh 9y ago
      I'm not judging I wrote that everyone has it's own use case. My only point is don't use test version if you don't want to be tested or opt-out of it. ;)
- throwawayReply 9y ago
  You should be using Aurora not Nightly for those features.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    Aurora does, afaik, not allow extending the WebExtension API with a custom legacy extension, this is only available in nightly.
piyush_soni 9y ago
Extending your argument only a bit, "No one is forcing you to use Firefox stable release version if it is not consistent with your faith". "No one is forcing you to use computers and internet if they are not consistent with your faith". I see so much irony in your statement. It's not about forcing anyone. It's about taking the web forward, and data security which Mozilla says it believes in. Nightly definitely means there could be unintentional mistakes and bugs, but does not mean it has our blanket agreement to intentionally sharing all of our private data by default.
- dotsh 9y ago
  So how do you want take web forward without testing new things based on real life data? Did you even read what they want to do and how they are going to do it?
  - piyush_soni 9y ago
    By doing things with a clearly visible message and explicit, prior, opt-in permission, perhaps? What's so difficult about that?
    - dotsh 9y ago
      Seriously they have to? Isn't this obvious enough? When downloading TEST RELEASE you willingly accept that it will collect anonymous data and send it to them. If you do not want to test something, because you're opposed to it, do not do it. A lot of companies do that and I do not see anyone complaining about it for example Apple and macOS betas.
  - dade_ 9y ago
    I just received this email from my bank. Something like this would be nice: "Below is a link to the 2018 Annual Privacy Notice. This Notice provides details on the types of information we collect, why we collect it, and with whom we may share it. Collecting and permissible sharing of your information allows us to offer you a comprehensive range of services to help you meet your financial goals. "
superjambo 9y ago
Or perhaps the developers could just request consent before taking your data? I mean if that is just too difficult then what hope do they have of developing anything.

always_good 9y ago

I can only imagine how smug your smile was when you typed out "local data privacy officer" wondering how many chills you were about to send down Mozilla's spine. Lots of HNers are going to be let down in about one month.

kuschku 9y ago
The mills of bureaucracy run slow, I realize that. But it's the office of my local data privacy officer that has in the past sued basically every website in Germany for using the Facebook/Twitter like buttons, and won (and caused them all to use a two-click share button system). I've got trust in them that they'll act responsibly on this.
- gkya 9y ago
  On a mailing list discussion on whether or not to add a study to a version of software put out online for testing? You're being ridiculous.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    On a foreign company that has been distributing a software in this jurisdiction that does not comply with local data privacy law, specifically the requirement for explicit notification before any tracking happens, and, starting May 8, the explicit opt-in for any kind of analytics or telemetry that may contain personally identifying data. See: about:addons using Google Analytics without cookie disclaimer or opt-out ability, CliqZ addon receiving parts of browsing history without disclaimer, or any opt-in/-out, unauthorized installation of software on a remote computer (Mr Robot case), and much more.