5 ms·

To me, the odd thing is they focus on that instead of legalization and helping people report abuses. Legalization is far from perfect but abuse in Nevada broth

To me, the odd thing is they focus on that instead of legalization and helping people report abuses. Legalization is far from perfect but abuse in Nevada brothels is much lower than as street walkers. It seems it's more a puritanical belief system than a genuine desire to render aid.

sersi 9y ago
This is key. I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem. Driving things underground is only going to cause more issues and abuse to the sex workers. It's kind of ironic when in France, for example, a law gets passed criminalizing the customers while the sex workers go in the street to protest that law saying that it will create more abuse (and one year after, they were right). Trying to stop behaviors that will always exist in human societies doesn't work, it just drives the demand underground and if things are illegal already, then other more illegal, more abusive behaviors start to surface.
- halflings 9y ago
  > This is key. I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem. Why do we have to "believe"? There are many examples to learn from, to see what works and what doesn't. For example, this study [0]. "This paper suggests it’s the latter. Using trafficking data from 150 countries, the authors find that "countries where prostitution is legal experience a larger reported incidence of human trafficking inflows." As an example, they discuss Germany, which legalized prostitution in 2002. The minimum estimate of sex trafficking victims in the country increased from 9,870 in 2001 to 11,080 in 2002, to 12,350 in 2003." As an anecdotal example: Sweden has one of the harshest stances on prostitution, and it's working just fine [1]. [0] http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/06/17/study-legalizing-prostitution-increases-human-trafficking/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/06/17/study-legalizing-prostit... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden#Research_on_prostitution_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden#Researc...
  - zeth___ 9y ago
    Sweden has more rapes per capita than any country outside of sub-saharan Africa. Whatever system they have they can keep.
    - intended 9y ago
      I recall this is Because their definition is far broader - if it was applied to other countries the number of rapes would increase
      - IanCal 9y ago
        I think it's to do with the collection of statistics as well. They record the rape at the initial reporting to the police, no matter what any later investigation shows, and multiple rapes are counted individually (many countries do not). This is not saying which approach is correct for recording the numbers, but that you cant simply compare the numbers. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372
    - draugadrotten 9y ago
      It seems some of the men living in Sweden are among the planets worst sexual predators, to word it carefully. Sweden is pushing new legislation that will increase the number of rapes even more. It will be a law of consent and will shift the burden of proof from the victim to the rapist. Unless the rapist can prove consent, he will be sentenced for rape by negligence. Under the new law, having sex with a traffic victim prostitute can be considered "rape", and the burden of proof will be on the john to prove that it is not a traffic victim. (1,2,3) I live next door, in Norway. Here we talk of the "Swedish condition". (1) http://www.regeringen.se/pressmeddelanden/2017/12/en-ny-sexualbrottslagstiftning-byggd-pa-frivillighet/ http://www.regeringen.se/pressmeddelanden/2017/12/en-ny-sexu... (2) http://www.gp.se/nyheter/sverige/h%C3%A4r-%C3%A4r-f%C3%B6rslaget-till-samtyckeslag-1.4938473 http://www.gp.se/nyheter/sverige/h%C3%A4r-%C3%A4r-f%C3%B6rsl... (3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden
      - 9y ago
- flukus 9y ago
  > This is key. I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem I agree, but It's not a complete solution. Where I live brothels are legal, there is one 5 minutes from my house yet there are still street workers. The street workers are generally suffering from homelessness, mental health issues, drugs or all three. Legal brothels take care of much of the demand side, but they don't do much for people pushed into selling themselves.
  - Broken_Hippo 9y ago
    1. Most folks don't think it is a complete solution, and perhaps simply not limiting prostitution to brothels is one of the expansions that would work. You can still outlaw selling from the streets and require folks be registered and working through personals and whatnot, with some safety plans in place. 2. It seems the solution for these particular folks would be to focus less on picking them up for prostitution and instead, finding them safe housing, repeatedly offering mental health care, and repeatedly offering addiction services or at least helping them find a way to avoid feeling like they are forced into prostitution. With prostitution itself being legal, it is much easier to focus on these sorts of technicalities.
- hellofunk 9y ago
  > I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem. This appears to be a popular thesis among the commenters on this page. But your hunch is not proven by the realities of countries that have legalized prostitution. As I've commented elsewhere here, all you have to do is study the laws of prostitution elsewhere in the world to understand that they have little to no influence on sex trafficking. Prostitution is legal, explicit, and even taxed in the Netherlands, but sex trafficking remains such a major problem that some large cities, like Utrecht, have outlawed prostitution locally to combat the issue.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
kofejnik 9y ago
or maybe they, like any other political group, seek power to regulate and enforce
hellofunk 9y ago
As I noted in another comment, all you have to do is study the laws of prostitution elsewhere in the world to understand that they have little to no influence on sex trafficking. Prostitution is legal, explicit, and even taxed in the Netherlands, but sex trafficking remains such a major problem that some large cities, like Utrecht, have outlawed prostitution locally to combat the issue.

sersi 9y ago

This is key. I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem. Driving things underground is only going to cause more issues and abuse to the sex workers. It's kind of ironic when in France, for example, a law gets passed criminalizing the customers while the sex workers go in the street to protest that law saying that it will create more abuse (and one year after, they were right). Trying to stop behaviors that will always exist in human societies doesn't work, it just drives the demand underground and if things are illegal already, then other more illegal, more abusive behaviors start to surface.

halflings 9y ago
> This is key. I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem. Why do we have to "believe"? There are many examples to learn from, to see what works and what doesn't. For example, this study [0]. "This paper suggests it’s the latter. Using trafficking data from 150 countries, the authors find that "countries where prostitution is legal experience a larger reported incidence of human trafficking inflows." As an example, they discuss Germany, which legalized prostitution in 2002. The minimum estimate of sex trafficking victims in the country increased from 9,870 in 2001 to 11,080 in 2002, to 12,350 in 2003." As an anecdotal example: Sweden has one of the harshest stances on prostitution, and it's working just fine [1]. [0] http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/06/17/study-legalizing-prostitution-increases-human-trafficking/ http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/06/17/study-legalizing-prostit... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden#Research_on_prostitution_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Sweden#Researc...
- zeth___ 9y ago
  Sweden has more rapes per capita than any country outside of sub-saharan Africa. Whatever system they have they can keep.
  - intended 9y ago
    I recall this is Because their definition is far broader - if it was applied to other countries the number of rapes would increase
    - IanCal 9y ago
      I think it's to do with the collection of statistics as well. They record the rape at the initial reporting to the police, no matter what any later investigation shows, and multiple rapes are counted individually (many countries do not). This is not saying which approach is correct for recording the numbers, but that you cant simply compare the numbers. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19592372
  - draugadrotten 9y ago
    It seems some of the men living in Sweden are among the planets worst sexual predators, to word it carefully. Sweden is pushing new legislation that will increase the number of rapes even more. It will be a law of consent and will shift the burden of proof from the victim to the rapist. Unless the rapist can prove consent, he will be sentenced for rape by negligence. Under the new law, having sex with a traffic victim prostitute can be considered "rape", and the burden of proof will be on the john to prove that it is not a traffic victim. (1,2,3) I live next door, in Norway. Here we talk of the "Swedish condition". (1) http://www.regeringen.se/pressmeddelanden/2017/12/en-ny-sexualbrottslagstiftning-byggd-pa-frivillighet/ http://www.regeringen.se/pressmeddelanden/2017/12/en-ny-sexu... (2) http://www.gp.se/nyheter/sverige/h%C3%A4r-%C3%A4r-f%C3%B6rslaget-till-samtyckeslag-1.4938473 http://www.gp.se/nyheter/sverige/h%C3%A4r-%C3%A4r-f%C3%B6rsl... (3) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_Sweden
    - 9y ago
flukus 9y ago
> This is key. I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem I agree, but It's not a complete solution. Where I live brothels are legal, there is one 5 minutes from my house yet there are still street workers. The street workers are generally suffering from homelessness, mental health issues, drugs or all three. Legal brothels take care of much of the demand side, but they don't do much for people pushed into selling themselves.
- Broken_Hippo 9y ago
  1. Most folks don't think it is a complete solution, and perhaps simply not limiting prostitution to brothels is one of the expansions that would work. You can still outlaw selling from the streets and require folks be registered and working through personals and whatnot, with some safety plans in place. 2. It seems the solution for these particular folks would be to focus less on picking them up for prostitution and instead, finding them safe housing, repeatedly offering mental health care, and repeatedly offering addiction services or at least helping them find a way to avoid feeling like they are forced into prostitution. With prostitution itself being legal, it is much easier to focus on these sorts of technicalities.
hellofunk 9y ago
> I strongly believe that legalization is the only answer to the problem. This appears to be a popular thesis among the commenters on this page. But your hunch is not proven by the realities of countries that have legalized prostitution. As I've commented elsewhere here, all you have to do is study the laws of prostitution elsewhere in the world to understand that they have little to no influence on sex trafficking. Prostitution is legal, explicit, and even taxed in the Netherlands, but sex trafficking remains such a major problem that some large cities, like Utrecht, have outlawed prostitution locally to combat the issue.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

kofejnik 9y ago

or maybe they, like any other political group, seek power to regulate and enforce

hellofunk 9y ago

As I noted in another comment, all you have to do is study the laws of prostitution elsewhere in the world to understand that they have little to no influence on sex trafficking. Prostitution is legal, explicit, and even taxed in the Netherlands, but sex trafficking remains such a major problem that some large cities, like Utrecht, have outlawed prostitution locally to combat the issue.