4 ms·

I’ve always found it very effective to use a “just say no” policy to out of hours work or more work than I can handle comfortably. People stop taking advantage

I’ve always found it very effective to use a “just say no” policy to out of hours work or more work than I can handle comfortably. People stop taking advantage when you stop letting them. More than you might expect actually respect it. I don’t think this way of working has hurt my career progression, and it’s certainly done wonders for my mental health.

saas_co_de 9y ago
100% true. > I don’t think this way of working has hurt my career progression I am sure it has helped.
- lostcolony 9y ago
  Yep. The "if you give them an inch they'll take a mile" philosophy applies. My wife tends to try and accommodate, and it has meant she isn't respected in her current position. Meanwhile, same company, I've made it clear that I have boundaries. I may allow some time after my usual working hours; if I do, I will leave early/arrive late the next day. I'm not putting in over 40 hours, and -I- get to determine when my schedule changes. And, perversely, it's led to greater recognition, promotion, etc. The fact I act like I am in control leads people to believe I am, and should be given, control.
rconti 9y ago
Agreed. I've found the more you stand up for yourself, the more your boundaries are respected. That said, I'm sure it doesn't work in all situations, or with all bosses, so I'm hesitant to blame the victim -- I've been lucky to have very good bosses in my career.
- Thriptic 9y ago
  I've found that assembling highly in demand skills helps a lot with this. For awhile I was by far and away the best developer in my org (which is not to say that I'm a good developer, just that our org had 0 formal software engineering xp). This gave me very broad power to say no to projects or put in place prerequisites which had to be met before I would take on a project. It definitely pissed people off, but I was adding enough value to be able to take the stance "hey if you don't like it fire me".
ghettoimp 9y ago
Yep yep yep. I've had to fight numerous battles with my boss, along the lines of, "I don't care who scheduled the meeting, I already have plans tonight, and it's not reasonable to make me change them with no notice." This mentality has turned out to be (a) well worth it for my marriage, and (b) not actually a big deal in the scheme of things.
- mrguyorama 9y ago
  >" I already have plans tonight, and it's not reasonable to make me change them with no notice." I find the fact that you even feel you need to include this part disgusting. I'm paid for 40 hours a week. You are not required to pay me overtime. You do not get a second extra of my time
  - ghettoimp 9y ago
    Well, yes. I am salaried, and they do pay me well, so I'm willing to work more than 40 hours from time to time, when schedules are tight. I think that for me, my criteria for being OK with more-than-40 are probably something like: (0) it had better not be that much more than 40, (1) it had better not be an exception, not the rule, and (2) it had better be something I can plan for, so I'm not jerking around my family/friends.
    - CaptSpify 9y ago
      Additionally, if the company gives you other perks, it's often worth it. If I can generally set my own hours, and you give me a ton of vacation time, pay me well, and give me other good incentives just for working there, I'm much more likely to put in a few extra hours every now and then if something comes up.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bbarn 9y ago
Couldn't agree more. I do think there's a sense of competition that can breed that working all night/available all night mentality, but I find that if I can actually focus 6 hours a day on being productive I'm outperforming those people that are emailing at 9pm, and I think that actually makes me look better to those above me. I have only my own career progression as evidence there, but comparing the years when I tried to be an all night go getter to the years I strictly cut off my work day at the end, I am more respected and more performant with the latter.

saas_co_de 9y ago

100% true. > I don’t think this way of working has hurt my career progression I am sure it has helped.

lostcolony 9y ago
Yep. The "if you give them an inch they'll take a mile" philosophy applies. My wife tends to try and accommodate, and it has meant she isn't respected in her current position. Meanwhile, same company, I've made it clear that I have boundaries. I may allow some time after my usual working hours; if I do, I will leave early/arrive late the next day. I'm not putting in over 40 hours, and -I- get to determine when my schedule changes. And, perversely, it's led to greater recognition, promotion, etc. The fact I act like I am in control leads people to believe I am, and should be given, control.

rconti 9y ago

Agreed. I've found the more you stand up for yourself, the more your boundaries are respected. That said, I'm sure it doesn't work in all situations, or with all bosses, so I'm hesitant to blame the victim -- I've been lucky to have very good bosses in my career.

Thriptic 9y ago
I've found that assembling highly in demand skills helps a lot with this. For awhile I was by far and away the best developer in my org (which is not to say that I'm a good developer, just that our org had 0 formal software engineering xp). This gave me very broad power to say no to projects or put in place prerequisites which had to be met before I would take on a project. It definitely pissed people off, but I was adding enough value to be able to take the stance "hey if you don't like it fire me".

ghettoimp 9y ago

Yep yep yep. I've had to fight numerous battles with my boss, along the lines of, "I don't care who scheduled the meeting, I already have plans tonight, and it's not reasonable to make me change them with no notice." This mentality has turned out to be (a) well worth it for my marriage, and (b) not actually a big deal in the scheme of things.

mrguyorama 9y ago
>" I already have plans tonight, and it's not reasonable to make me change them with no notice." I find the fact that you even feel you need to include this part disgusting. I'm paid for 40 hours a week. You are not required to pay me overtime. You do not get a second extra of my time
- ghettoimp 9y ago
  Well, yes. I am salaried, and they do pay me well, so I'm willing to work more than 40 hours from time to time, when schedules are tight. I think that for me, my criteria for being OK with more-than-40 are probably something like: (0) it had better not be that much more than 40, (1) it had better not be an exception, not the rule, and (2) it had better be something I can plan for, so I'm not jerking around my family/friends.
  - CaptSpify 9y ago
    Additionally, if the company gives you other perks, it's often worth it. If I can generally set my own hours, and you give me a ton of vacation time, pay me well, and give me other good incentives just for working there, I'm much more likely to put in a few extra hours every now and then if something comes up.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

bbarn 9y ago

Couldn't agree more. I do think there's a sense of competition that can breed that working all night/available all night mentality, but I find that if I can actually focus 6 hours a day on being productive I'm outperforming those people that are emailing at 9pm, and I think that actually makes me look better to those above me. I have only my own career progression as evidence there, but comparing the years when I tried to be an all night go getter to the years I strictly cut off my work day at the end, I am more respected and more performant with the latter.