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Dealing w/ RSI has been an eye opener for me. What makes it worse: working on a laptop, working on the plane, having to do long hours in poor ergonomic conditio

Dealing w/ RSI has been an eye opener for me. What makes it worse: working on a laptop, working on the plane, having to do long hours in poor ergonomic conditions. What do I have to do to be good at my job? Basically, that. What happens if it gets worse and I can no longer use a computer for at least eight hours a day? That is my livelihood

mancerayder 9y ago
It WILL become a problem. The biggest issue with RSI and other repetive-use injuries (which happens in many professions and even athletics, especially with bad form) is that it happens slowly, then suddenly. It's so slow that it's discomfort. And you ignore that discomfort, especially as your concentration is on a computer monitor with important stuff to worry about being displayed on it. Also, sometimes inflammation happens later (later that night, later that week, etc.). Start now to reduce your RSI (and RSI isn't your only problem, more on that below): Get an external keyboard either that has an ergonomic design is is comfortable for you, and a mouse too. A Mac keyboard will be nightmare, don't use it. A Mac 'Magic Mouse' or trackpad will cause damage. It's not made for serious long-term work (there might be a lawsuit one day). Pro tip: this may sound crazy, but get two mice, one left, one right. Change often. Learn to use the lefty even if you're right-handed, or vice-versa. You'll be surprised at how quickly you get used to it (and you'll laugh when someone tries to show you something on your workstation). Get a desk that moves up and down. Spend some time standing, some time sitting. Again, change often. Next, other than RSI is your neck and back. As your rhomboids get stretched and weak from forward rotation of the shoulders, the rear neck muscles get stretched and weak, the serratus goes unused, the chest and front-neck muscles get short and tight... You arch your head forward which causes your head (which already weighs about 8 pounds) to exert a lot more than 8 pounds of force on those muscle groups. And you also look at your phone all day, which you hold down below you. Well you're in for a world of nightmares and headaches that'll make the RSI a distraction by comparison. Start early to avoid these things, before it becomes too late. Sincerely, A guy with some greying and screwed up wrists/hands and neck.
- glitcher 9y ago
  Completely agree with these awesome tips. I began to get problems in my right wrist from too much mousing (and probably using wrong mice for too long). I started switching between right and left mouse usage, and not only did it reduce the pain in the right side, but I found I adapted to left mousing fairly quickly and easily.
- shams93 9y ago
  Yup suddenly you can't walk and they find your spine has decomposed and you're facing major spinal surgery and partial or full disability. That happened to a friend of mine a major retail manager for 10 years then her back literally gave out and she had to have steel implants then was on opiates for 7 years coping with the chronic pain.
- BigJono 9y ago
  On the topic of mac keyboards and mice, I've never had any uncomfortableness or pain at work, until I started a job where I was given your standard Apple combo of peripherals. Suddenly, pain everywhere. The tips of my fingers were burning after every keystroke, some of the muscles/tendons in my right wrist felt like they were about to snap after using the mouse for a few hours. How are these products still on the market? Two weeks in I bought my own mouse and keyboard and haven't had a single bit of pain since.
- tomrod 9y ago
  Jeez. I've noticed most of my coworkers use mice all the time. I try to stay on the keyboard as much as possible.
- phil21 9y ago
  I've also found switching keyboards often (just subtle differences mean your hands are doing different things) helps as well.
- jupiter90000 9y ago
  I used to get blinding pain in my right shoulder and neck and thought I might have to change careers because it kept getting worse and worse. Tried all kinds of stretching and stuff, some helped, but nothing took the pain completely away. I was in so much pain one day I couldn't use the mouse with my right hand, and began using it with my left hand. The pain gradually went away and I've never had problems since. I think I had a bad habit of some kind when mousing with my right hand I never developed when using my left. Now almost exclusively mouse left handed. That said, physical exercise, especially hiking and yoga, have helped my neck, back, arm, leg stiffness & pain, etc. considerably. It's as necessary as brushing teeth for me to feel physically ok to be able to keep working in an office.
T2_t2 9y ago
Off topic: Is it RSI or tennis elbow? I got really bad tennis elbow from my Macbook (my theory is the copy paste using a key four in from bottom left rather than the corner key of a windows computer is the issue, as it changes the position of your hand when doing it from pinky to thumb). Anyway, if it is tennis elbow, you can buy a strap that alleviates ALL of the pain. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=tennis+elbow+strap https://www.google.com.au/search?q=tennis+elbow+strap My mate couldn't life 1kg with a bicep curl, put the strap on and did 10KG. It is like a miracle! Longer term, you need to loosen out your bicep and upper traps. But really, just try that strap and see!
- twblalock 9y ago
  Things like wrist supports, straps, braces, etc. should only be used if recommended by a doctor. They can make some conditions worse.
rootusrootus 9y ago
Change styles, I guess. I switched to using large-muscle movements to control my mouse, for example, so even switching to a trackball would cause more RSI for me. And if I feel it coming on in my hands, and I cannot just walk away for the rest of the day, I switch to hunt and peck. Haven't had to do that in a while, but you're right, when it's your livelihood you find a way.
- avhon1 9y ago
  Have you looked at large, centered trackballs? A trackball the size of a billards ball under your palm is easy to control with your whole arm.
hkmurakami 9y ago
I travel with mouse and keyboard for this reason. Not remotely enough to compensate but any mitigation is a plus. Or we can develop or dictation programming skills like John Siracusa.
tzakrajs 9y ago
I suffered from significant pain from 2012 through 2015 and finally I made the below changes to solve my RSI. Each one provided additional comfort. COLEMAK keyboard layout Contour RollerMouse Pro3 Regular wrist stretching Apple keyboard* *instead of Mechnical keyboards that require more force and vertical movement to depress a key Edit: formatting
rabboRubble 9y ago
I empathize. Had major trouble myself with the same. This is a run down of everything I tried to some positive effect: * Hand, forearm, shoulder and neck massage. Weekly if need be. Don't discount problems in your shoulders causing issues in your wrists. * Stopped using a single hand mouse, learned keyboard shortcuts. My RSI was worse on my mouse hand. The constant moving right hand off keyboard at 12 o'clock to 1 o'clock to click with mouse was a killer. Keeping hands centered and relatively immobile over keyboard helped. * Bought my own office chair that fit me. I am short through the torso and chairs could never lift me high enough for me to avoid lifting elbows. * Bought an ergonomic keyboard and mouse. * Bought an ergonomic keyboard augment (kind of a tray that the keyboard sat upon, that had padded extensions under either side of my wrists) that kept my wrists off the edge of desk, edge of laptop, etc.) * Every job I got, I brought my own chair and equipment and tossed whatever my employer provided. * I had an ergonomics consultant come in and check my posture, desk, and chair set up. As a heavy traveler, I'd really try the massage because you can get a massage in lots of locations. My shoulders were a great part of the problem. Good luck. Edit: I think I should also explain some of the difficulties I had with employers. Occasionally I got crap because I created an extra chair by bringing my own. I explained that I spent more time in my office chair than I did in my own bed, and I didn't purchase my bed by finding the cheapest mattress. Since I was in my chair more than my bed, I had even higher expectation of fit and comfort. If they had a problem with my asset being on their premise, they were free to buy the chair from me at my cost. Please see copies of medical bills which I'd be happy to claim as an expense. The other issue I had was with IT. They would see all the nonstandard equipment and then say "we can't support X because of specialized keyboard or mouse". My response would be "I completely understand the needs of IT for support-ability. Please see copies of my medical bills for RSI and massage treatment. Please have IT procurement buy replacement equipment under IT's procurement control to ensure support-ability." Both of these strategies proved successful with employers and the IT staff.
f-penelope 9y ago
Suffered from RSI for years. This book, a thumb trackball and no-number-pad keyboard changed my life. Its a book of stretches that I still do whenever something flares up. Good luck! http://a.co/f1v8j5e http://a.co/f1v8j5e
tcoff91 9y ago
I dealt with RSI in my hands for almost a year and made a complete recovery by going to the local rock climbing gym and bouldering. It was almost immediate that my hands began to feel better. I also think that my issues were at least in part due to muscle tension which was coming not due to physical issues but due to emotional issues. Keep an open mind and read "The Great Pain Deception" and see if it applies to your life. I really think that in addition to the physical benefits of rock climbing helping me, it was also the realization that if I could climb rocks then there wasn't anything really wrong with my hands, and that pain when using the computer was a conditioned response.
- nileshk 9y ago
  Similarly, Dr. John Sarno's "The Mindbody Prescription" helped me after over a year of RSI. This happened early in my career, and I've been pain free for about 17 years now.
- jdpigeon 9y ago
  Lucky. My bouldering 'career' left me with a lingering case of tendonitis in my elbow and kickstarted my mousing RSI issues. Make sure you're doing your preventative exercises!
rifung 9y ago
What motivates you to stay at your role instead of finding a different position where you would work in better conditions?
- chaseha 9y ago
  Well, for one, I like what I do. And thus far I've been able to manage it by making some changes, over time. Basically all of these I learned about from other HN threads: * first, switching between using L and R hands for mouse * eventually, purchased a new mouse: Evoluent VerticalMouse 4 Right - neutralizes your wrist on mouse hand * software that forces you to take breaks instead of just sitting and typing for hours straight. Workrave is what I use (http://www.workrave.org/ http://www.workrave.org/) - freeware and lightweight. I take 12 second micro-breaks every 4.5 minutes and a 4 minute break ever 25. Get up, stretch around, wiggle your arms. Staring at a far away corner of the room helps w/ eye strain too * for plane rides - small, wireless trackball has worked wonders. I can't use a laptop touchpad worth a damn
morgtheborg 9y ago
I had RSI, chronic ankle pain after an injury, and back pain. I bought all sorts of ergonomic solutions. Some helped, but none completely. I was getting desperate since, as mentioned, typing is how I pay the bills. I can't just STOP. I was scouring the net and ran across a developer who swore that The Mindbody Prescription: Healing the Body, Healing the Pain by Sarno fixed his issues. I looked him up, proved to myself he was a dev and then basically said, fuck it, let's try it despite it seeming woo-woo to the extreme. Little to no pain to this day. This was after MONTHS of PT and ergonomic changes that didn't solve the problem. Anyway. Just my two cents. *EDIT - one of these was the article (perhaps both), https://blog.evanweaver.com/2012/09/05/a-programmers-guide-to-healing-rsi/ https://blog.evanweaver.com/2012/09/05/a-programmers-guide-t... and http://aaroniba.net/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain http://aaroniba.net/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain
- nileshk 9y ago
  I had a similar story that lead to Sarno's book. Going on 17 years now without issues.

mancerayder 9y ago

It WILL become a problem. The biggest issue with RSI and other repetive-use injuries (which happens in many professions and even athletics, especially with bad form) is that it happens slowly, then suddenly. It's so slow that it's discomfort. And you ignore that discomfort, especially as your concentration is on a computer monitor with important stuff to worry about being displayed on it. Also, sometimes inflammation happens later (later that night, later that week, etc.). Start now to reduce your RSI (and RSI isn't your only problem, more on that below): Get an external keyboard either that has an ergonomic design is is comfortable for you, and a mouse too. A Mac keyboard will be nightmare, don't use it. A Mac 'Magic Mouse' or trackpad will cause damage. It's not made for serious long-term work (there might be a lawsuit one day). Pro tip: this may sound crazy, but get two mice, one left, one right. Change often. Learn to use the lefty even if you're right-handed, or vice-versa. You'll be surprised at how quickly you get used to it (and you'll laugh when someone tries to show you something on your workstation). Get a desk that moves up and down. Spend some time standing, some time sitting. Again, change often. Next, other than RSI is your neck and back. As your rhomboids get stretched and weak from forward rotation of the shoulders, the rear neck muscles get stretched and weak, the serratus goes unused, the chest and front-neck muscles get short and tight... You arch your head forward which causes your head (which already weighs about 8 pounds) to exert a lot more than 8 pounds of force on those muscle groups. And you also look at your phone all day, which you hold down below you. Well you're in for a world of nightmares and headaches that'll make the RSI a distraction by comparison. Start early to avoid these things, before it becomes too late. Sincerely, A guy with some greying and screwed up wrists/hands and neck.

glitcher 9y ago
Completely agree with these awesome tips. I began to get problems in my right wrist from too much mousing (and probably using wrong mice for too long). I started switching between right and left mouse usage, and not only did it reduce the pain in the right side, but I found I adapted to left mousing fairly quickly and easily.
shams93 9y ago
Yup suddenly you can't walk and they find your spine has decomposed and you're facing major spinal surgery and partial or full disability. That happened to a friend of mine a major retail manager for 10 years then her back literally gave out and she had to have steel implants then was on opiates for 7 years coping with the chronic pain.
BigJono 9y ago
On the topic of mac keyboards and mice, I've never had any uncomfortableness or pain at work, until I started a job where I was given your standard Apple combo of peripherals. Suddenly, pain everywhere. The tips of my fingers were burning after every keystroke, some of the muscles/tendons in my right wrist felt like they were about to snap after using the mouse for a few hours. How are these products still on the market? Two weeks in I bought my own mouse and keyboard and haven't had a single bit of pain since.
tomrod 9y ago
Jeez. I've noticed most of my coworkers use mice all the time. I try to stay on the keyboard as much as possible.
phil21 9y ago
I've also found switching keyboards often (just subtle differences mean your hands are doing different things) helps as well.
jupiter90000 9y ago
I used to get blinding pain in my right shoulder and neck and thought I might have to change careers because it kept getting worse and worse. Tried all kinds of stretching and stuff, some helped, but nothing took the pain completely away. I was in so much pain one day I couldn't use the mouse with my right hand, and began using it with my left hand. The pain gradually went away and I've never had problems since. I think I had a bad habit of some kind when mousing with my right hand I never developed when using my left. Now almost exclusively mouse left handed. That said, physical exercise, especially hiking and yoga, have helped my neck, back, arm, leg stiffness & pain, etc. considerably. It's as necessary as brushing teeth for me to feel physically ok to be able to keep working in an office.

T2_t2 9y ago

Off topic: Is it RSI or tennis elbow? I got really bad tennis elbow from my Macbook (my theory is the copy paste using a key four in from bottom left rather than the corner key of a windows computer is the issue, as it changes the position of your hand when doing it from pinky to thumb). Anyway, if it is tennis elbow, you can buy a strap that alleviates ALL of the pain. https://www.google.com.au/search?q=tennis+elbow+strap https://www.google.com.au/search?q=tennis+elbow+strap My mate couldn't life 1kg with a bicep curl, put the strap on and did 10KG. It is like a miracle! Longer term, you need to loosen out your bicep and upper traps. But really, just try that strap and see!

twblalock 9y ago
Things like wrist supports, straps, braces, etc. should only be used if recommended by a doctor. They can make some conditions worse.

rootusrootus 9y ago

Change styles, I guess. I switched to using large-muscle movements to control my mouse, for example, so even switching to a trackball would cause more RSI for me. And if I feel it coming on in my hands, and I cannot just walk away for the rest of the day, I switch to hunt and peck. Haven't had to do that in a while, but you're right, when it's your livelihood you find a way.

avhon1 9y ago
Have you looked at large, centered trackballs? A trackball the size of a billards ball under your palm is easy to control with your whole arm.

hkmurakami 9y ago

I travel with mouse and keyboard for this reason. Not remotely enough to compensate but any mitigation is a plus. Or we can develop or dictation programming skills like John Siracusa.

tzakrajs 9y ago

I suffered from significant pain from 2012 through 2015 and finally I made the below changes to solve my RSI. Each one provided additional comfort. COLEMAK keyboard layout Contour RollerMouse Pro3 Regular wrist stretching Apple keyboard* *instead of Mechnical keyboards that require more force and vertical movement to depress a key Edit: formatting

rabboRubble 9y ago

I empathize. Had major trouble myself with the same. This is a run down of everything I tried to some positive effect: * Hand, forearm, shoulder and neck massage. Weekly if need be. Don't discount problems in your shoulders causing issues in your wrists. * Stopped using a single hand mouse, learned keyboard shortcuts. My RSI was worse on my mouse hand. The constant moving right hand off keyboard at 12 o'clock to 1 o'clock to click with mouse was a killer. Keeping hands centered and relatively immobile over keyboard helped. * Bought my own office chair that fit me. I am short through the torso and chairs could never lift me high enough for me to avoid lifting elbows. * Bought an ergonomic keyboard and mouse. * Bought an ergonomic keyboard augment (kind of a tray that the keyboard sat upon, that had padded extensions under either side of my wrists) that kept my wrists off the edge of desk, edge of laptop, etc.) * Every job I got, I brought my own chair and equipment and tossed whatever my employer provided. * I had an ergonomics consultant come in and check my posture, desk, and chair set up. As a heavy traveler, I'd really try the massage because you can get a massage in lots of locations. My shoulders were a great part of the problem. Good luck. Edit: I think I should also explain some of the difficulties I had with employers. Occasionally I got crap because I created an extra chair by bringing my own. I explained that I spent more time in my office chair than I did in my own bed, and I didn't purchase my bed by finding the cheapest mattress. Since I was in my chair more than my bed, I had even higher expectation of fit and comfort. If they had a problem with my asset being on their premise, they were free to buy the chair from me at my cost. Please see copies of medical bills which I'd be happy to claim as an expense. The other issue I had was with IT. They would see all the nonstandard equipment and then say "we can't support X because of specialized keyboard or mouse". My response would be "I completely understand the needs of IT for support-ability. Please see copies of my medical bills for RSI and massage treatment. Please have IT procurement buy replacement equipment under IT's procurement control to ensure support-ability." Both of these strategies proved successful with employers and the IT staff.

f-penelope 9y ago

Suffered from RSI for years. This book, a thumb trackball and no-number-pad keyboard changed my life. Its a book of stretches that I still do whenever something flares up. Good luck! http://a.co/f1v8j5e http://a.co/f1v8j5e

tcoff91 9y ago

I dealt with RSI in my hands for almost a year and made a complete recovery by going to the local rock climbing gym and bouldering. It was almost immediate that my hands began to feel better. I also think that my issues were at least in part due to muscle tension which was coming not due to physical issues but due to emotional issues. Keep an open mind and read "The Great Pain Deception" and see if it applies to your life. I really think that in addition to the physical benefits of rock climbing helping me, it was also the realization that if I could climb rocks then there wasn't anything really wrong with my hands, and that pain when using the computer was a conditioned response.

nileshk 9y ago
Similarly, Dr. John Sarno's "The Mindbody Prescription" helped me after over a year of RSI. This happened early in my career, and I've been pain free for about 17 years now.
jdpigeon 9y ago
Lucky. My bouldering 'career' left me with a lingering case of tendonitis in my elbow and kickstarted my mousing RSI issues. Make sure you're doing your preventative exercises!

rifung 9y ago

What motivates you to stay at your role instead of finding a different position where you would work in better conditions?

chaseha 9y ago
Well, for one, I like what I do. And thus far I've been able to manage it by making some changes, over time. Basically all of these I learned about from other HN threads: * first, switching between using L and R hands for mouse * eventually, purchased a new mouse: Evoluent VerticalMouse 4 Right - neutralizes your wrist on mouse hand * software that forces you to take breaks instead of just sitting and typing for hours straight. Workrave is what I use (http://www.workrave.org/ http://www.workrave.org/) - freeware and lightweight. I take 12 second micro-breaks every 4.5 minutes and a 4 minute break ever 25. Get up, stretch around, wiggle your arms. Staring at a far away corner of the room helps w/ eye strain too * for plane rides - small, wireless trackball has worked wonders. I can't use a laptop touchpad worth a damn

morgtheborg 9y ago

I had RSI, chronic ankle pain after an injury, and back pain. I bought all sorts of ergonomic solutions. Some helped, but none completely. I was getting desperate since, as mentioned, typing is how I pay the bills. I can't just STOP. I was scouring the net and ran across a developer who swore that The Mindbody Prescription: Healing the Body, Healing the Pain by Sarno fixed his issues. I looked him up, proved to myself he was a dev and then basically said, fuck it, let's try it despite it seeming woo-woo to the extreme. Little to no pain to this day. This was after MONTHS of PT and ergonomic changes that didn't solve the problem. Anyway. Just my two cents. *EDIT - one of these was the article (perhaps both), https://blog.evanweaver.com/2012/09/05/a-programmers-guide-to-healing-rsi/ https://blog.evanweaver.com/2012/09/05/a-programmers-guide-t... and http://aaroniba.net/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain http://aaroniba.net/how-i-cured-my-rsi-pain

nileshk 9y ago
I had a similar story that lead to Sarno's book. Going on 17 years now without issues.