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The issue though is that the person whose job this is taking likely is not going to be the same person that is going to help the cancer patient. If that was the

by lghh 9y ago

The issue though is that the person whose job this is taking likely is not going to be the same person that is going to help the cancer patient. If that was the case, they would have already been helping the cancer patient and not scanning things at Walmart.

nemacol 9y ago
This is a critical point to the whole conversation around automation and globalization. Ask my neighbor the ex-steel worker how his work in Oncology is going. There are benefits, for sure. But the cycle is too fast and people get push aside. Those people suffer.
chrischen 9y ago
Of course not, but cancer research is not the only society benefitting line of work that can't be automated yet. I used it as an extreme example of something that clearly isn't automated yet and that which resources (overall in society) can be freed up for to pursue. If you use a bit of imagination, robots at the lowest level can free up jobs so that the lower level say coal worker or walmart worker can be freed to pursue something slightly higher level, which can free up options for jobs at an even higher level, and so on and so forth, until pressure is relieved to allow for more cancer researchers. Imagine if we had automated cars that could drive us anywhere. The decreased costs of transit would make everyone else wealthier as we can do more things in the workday, go to new places, get more done. Former Uber drivers can now go back to school or training for less menial tasks, and the ability to train for jobs that can improve society even further (in the same way that automated driving did). Such improvements would make the job of a cancer researcher easier in and of itself, but also the labor force that is now relieved of duty, but more importantly now forced to pursue more useful tasks, will lead to further improvements in society that ultimately benefit the cancer researchers at the top of the pyramid. Over 600 million people in developing countries have to walk miles to get fresh water. Arguing that automation should be impeded to save jobs is the same as arguing that these people should continue walking so they don't lose their jobs walking for water. It's pretty clear if you look at that that before any of those developing country citizens can cure cancer, they'd have to solve their water problem first (by automating it with pipes and filtration), fix their mosquito and public health issues, and other things that should be solved/automated away so that no more manual labor is required.
- lghh 9y ago
  Sorry to respond so late, but I want to get things clarified. > If you use a bit of imagination, robots at the lowest level can free up jobs so that the lower level say coal worker or walmart worker can be freed to pursue something slightly higher level, which can free up options for jobs at an even higher level, and so on and so forth, until pressure is relieved to allow for more cancer researchers. I don't understand this connection. They are already "free" to do those things but can't for varying socioeconomic reasons or simply because they don't want to. Suddenly losing their job isn't going to free them into making their life better. > Over 600 million people in developing countries have to walk miles to get fresh water. Arguing that automation should be impeded to save jobs is the same as arguing that these people should continue walking so they don't lose their jobs walking for water. I, and I assume most people, are not arguing that. What we are arguing is that when these things happen they are painful and hurt people and that often their lives don't get better. When we, as people in tech, automate out a career we also have a responsibility to help those people whose life we ruined. Collecting water to survive != working at walmart making some goober in a suit a ton of money. Of course when people's basic needs are met better their lives get better. We are taking away their ability to meet their needs (income), not freeing them from those needs to improve their lives.

by lghh 9y ago

nemacol 9y ago

This is a critical point to the whole conversation around automation and globalization. Ask my neighbor the ex-steel worker how his work in Oncology is going. There are benefits, for sure. But the cycle is too fast and people get push aside. Those people suffer.

chrischen 9y ago

Of course not, but cancer research is not the only society benefitting line of work that can't be automated yet. I used it as an extreme example of something that clearly isn't automated yet and that which resources (overall in society) can be freed up for to pursue. If you use a bit of imagination, robots at the lowest level can free up jobs so that the lower level say coal worker or walmart worker can be freed to pursue something slightly higher level, which can free up options for jobs at an even higher level, and so on and so forth, until pressure is relieved to allow for more cancer researchers. Imagine if we had automated cars that could drive us anywhere. The decreased costs of transit would make everyone else wealthier as we can do more things in the workday, go to new places, get more done. Former Uber drivers can now go back to school or training for less menial tasks, and the ability to train for jobs that can improve society even further (in the same way that automated driving did). Such improvements would make the job of a cancer researcher easier in and of itself, but also the labor force that is now relieved of duty, but more importantly now forced to pursue more useful tasks, will lead to further improvements in society that ultimately benefit the cancer researchers at the top of the pyramid. Over 600 million people in developing countries have to walk miles to get fresh water. Arguing that automation should be impeded to save jobs is the same as arguing that these people should continue walking so they don't lose their jobs walking for water. It's pretty clear if you look at that that before any of those developing country citizens can cure cancer, they'd have to solve their water problem first (by automating it with pipes and filtration), fix their mosquito and public health issues, and other things that should be solved/automated away so that no more manual labor is required.

lghh 9y ago
Sorry to respond so late, but I want to get things clarified. > If you use a bit of imagination, robots at the lowest level can free up jobs so that the lower level say coal worker or walmart worker can be freed to pursue something slightly higher level, which can free up options for jobs at an even higher level, and so on and so forth, until pressure is relieved to allow for more cancer researchers. I don't understand this connection. They are already "free" to do those things but can't for varying socioeconomic reasons or simply because they don't want to. Suddenly losing their job isn't going to free them into making their life better. > Over 600 million people in developing countries have to walk miles to get fresh water. Arguing that automation should be impeded to save jobs is the same as arguing that these people should continue walking so they don't lose their jobs walking for water. I, and I assume most people, are not arguing that. What we are arguing is that when these things happen they are painful and hurt people and that often their lives don't get better. When we, as people in tech, automate out a career we also have a responsibility to help those people whose life we ruined. Collecting water to survive != working at walmart making some goober in a suit a ton of money. Of course when people's basic needs are met better their lives get better. We are taking away their ability to meet their needs (income), not freeing them from those needs to improve their lives.