5 ms·

Sorry, but that story was pure clickbait. So instead of moving to affordable, yet economically strong places like the metro areas in Texas he went for Canada to

by geff82 9y ago

Sorry, but that story was pure clickbait. So instead of moving to affordable, yet economically strong places like the metro areas in Texas he went for Canada to pay double the taxes... I do not get that story. There is nothing wrong with moving to Canada, great country, great people. But no one can tell me that the only Alternative to SV was Canada.

jonawesomegreen 9y ago
Taxes in California are very comparable to taxes in Canada, and like the US it does depend on the province one lives in.
- otoburb 9y ago
  Comparable taxes to California, except that Canadian health care is (mostly) free. Some British Columbia residents pay an extra supplement for additional insurance (prescription drugs, vision, dental, etc.), but it's a nominal amount for the coverage you get in return.
- bfuller 9y ago
  Seems like he feels better about himself having money living around middle class people rather than feeling middle class living around people with more money than he does.
s73v3r_ 9y ago
Arguably he gets more for his taxes in Canada than he does in the US.
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  Higher taxes + social safety net make more sense for lower income people. Higher income people can buy themselves a safety net.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > Higher taxes + social safety net make more sense for lower income people. Higher income people can buy themselves a safety net. It also makes sense for richer people if the living conditions are better because people poorer than you have a safety net so you aren't impacted by their social problems, or if, e.g., universal government benefits like healthcare end up being better value than what is privately available elsewhere, perhaps because of economies of scale, or because you are effectively a co-owner of a monopsony purchaser, or because the safety net for the poorer people supplying the service means total labor costs can be less without them living in unacceptable security.
    - toasterlovin 9y ago
      > because people poorer than you have a safety net so you aren't impacted by their social problems Well, you are impacted in that your taxes are higher. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, btw, just wanted to point out that the social safety net isn't really a major consideration for wealthy people. Heck, my wife is Canadian and we considered moving to Canada a while ago—and we aren't even wealthy, just middle to upper middle class—but the math just didn't make sense. Much lower salaries, much higher taxes, plus insane real estate market. It was a much better deal to say in the U.S. and buy our own safety net.
gameswithgo 9y ago
Canadian taxes include health insurance, possibly also obviates the need to buy a $500k house in order to be in a good school district (not sure if Canada is like this, other first world countries are) So could be a net savings.
- sbinthree 9y ago
  Canada has good schools and bad schools, although not to the same degree that the US does. You pay for better schools primarily through housing. Houses in good school district cost 10-30% more.
- toasterlovin 9y ago
  Canadian real estate is insane. As bad as California.
  - otoburb 9y ago
    Vancouver Island is much more affordable; seems like the person is willing to live away from dense urban centres. The insanity of Canadian real estate seems to be isolated to Toronto and Vancouver, although prices are predictably rising in "nearby" suburbs such as Kitchener/Waterloo (Ontario) or Langley/Surrey (near Vancouver).
    - toasterlovin 9y ago
      Yeah, what I mean is that, if you compare like to like, it's at insane California levels. So, in the city in Vancouver is comparable to SF. In the suburbs of Vancouver is comparable to suburbs of LA/SF. Rural land anywhere in BC is comparable to rural land in CA. So, rural land on Vancouver island is more affordable in the sense that there are less economic opportunities that come with that land, so the land costs less to buy. Which might be a good tradeoff for somebody who doesn't need to be near a job, but is not super useful to the majority of people who do.
- stale2002 9y ago
  I don't know why every talks about the "savings" if health care. No highly paid tech employee is paying 10s of thousands of dollars for Healthcare. The employer is the one who pays that, and the Employee is probably paying close to nothing.
toomuchtodo 9y ago
Texas is arguably one of the worst states in the US to live in (unless you're a high net worth individual), which doesn't bode well for a comparison against Canada. https://web.archive.org/web/20150401050939/https://www.texastribune.org/2011/02/14/texas-is-on-the-brink-legislative-study-group-says/ https://web.archive.org/web/20150401050939/https://www.texas...
- geff82 9y ago
  Well, I took it for an example (and I am a little Fanboy concerning Texas, forgive me having chosen it). There exist regions for about any taste in the US, it's such a diverse country.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- driverdan 9y ago
  Article is from 2011 and you're ignoring the fact that TX is a very large state. There are a wide variety of places to live.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    I'm not ignoring the size of the state. That doesn't change its fundamental deficiencies. If anything, its size gives it the advantage of scales of efficiencies it doesn't take advantage because of politics.
giarc 9y ago
Not covered in the story, and my speculation, but his wife is a physician and that likely factored into their decision. Very different physician culture in Canada compared to the US.
wk_end 9y ago
Your overall point is totally correct, and as a Canadian I dislike the way Americans often perceive Canada as this place that's basically America but better - that they're entitled to move to in order to escape their issues with their own country. But I wish people would stop spreading the myth that Canadian taxes are necessarily significantly higher than American ones. The highest federal income tax bracket in Canada is taxed at 33% [1], which is very comparable to US rates. Certainly, provincial taxes do tend to push things a little higher, and by comparison there are US states with very low or non-existent tax rates. But if you live in SF or New York, with their high state and city taxes, your income tax burden would be barely any higher in Vancouver or Toronto. [1] https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/financial-toolkit/taxes/taxes-2/5.html https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/...

by geff82 9y ago

jonawesomegreen 9y ago

Taxes in California are very comparable to taxes in Canada, and like the US it does depend on the province one lives in.

otoburb 9y ago
Comparable taxes to California, except that Canadian health care is (mostly) free. Some British Columbia residents pay an extra supplement for additional insurance (prescription drugs, vision, dental, etc.), but it's a nominal amount for the coverage you get in return.
bfuller 9y ago
Seems like he feels better about himself having money living around middle class people rather than feeling middle class living around people with more money than he does.

s73v3r_ 9y ago

Arguably he gets more for his taxes in Canada than he does in the US.

toasterlovin 9y ago
Higher taxes + social safety net make more sense for lower income people. Higher income people can buy themselves a safety net.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > Higher taxes + social safety net make more sense for lower income people. Higher income people can buy themselves a safety net. It also makes sense for richer people if the living conditions are better because people poorer than you have a safety net so you aren't impacted by their social problems, or if, e.g., universal government benefits like healthcare end up being better value than what is privately available elsewhere, perhaps because of economies of scale, or because you are effectively a co-owner of a monopsony purchaser, or because the safety net for the poorer people supplying the service means total labor costs can be less without them living in unacceptable security.
  - toasterlovin 9y ago
    > because people poorer than you have a safety net so you aren't impacted by their social problems Well, you are impacted in that your taxes are higher. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, btw, just wanted to point out that the social safety net isn't really a major consideration for wealthy people. Heck, my wife is Canadian and we considered moving to Canada a while ago—and we aren't even wealthy, just middle to upper middle class—but the math just didn't make sense. Much lower salaries, much higher taxes, plus insane real estate market. It was a much better deal to say in the U.S. and buy our own safety net.

gameswithgo 9y ago

Canadian taxes include health insurance, possibly also obviates the need to buy a $500k house in order to be in a good school district (not sure if Canada is like this, other first world countries are) So could be a net savings.

sbinthree 9y ago
Canada has good schools and bad schools, although not to the same degree that the US does. You pay for better schools primarily through housing. Houses in good school district cost 10-30% more.
toasterlovin 9y ago
Canadian real estate is insane. As bad as California.
- otoburb 9y ago
  Vancouver Island is much more affordable; seems like the person is willing to live away from dense urban centres. The insanity of Canadian real estate seems to be isolated to Toronto and Vancouver, although prices are predictably rising in "nearby" suburbs such as Kitchener/Waterloo (Ontario) or Langley/Surrey (near Vancouver).
  - toasterlovin 9y ago
    Yeah, what I mean is that, if you compare like to like, it's at insane California levels. So, in the city in Vancouver is comparable to SF. In the suburbs of Vancouver is comparable to suburbs of LA/SF. Rural land anywhere in BC is comparable to rural land in CA. So, rural land on Vancouver island is more affordable in the sense that there are less economic opportunities that come with that land, so the land costs less to buy. Which might be a good tradeoff for somebody who doesn't need to be near a job, but is not super useful to the majority of people who do.
stale2002 9y ago
I don't know why every talks about the "savings" if health care. No highly paid tech employee is paying 10s of thousands of dollars for Healthcare. The employer is the one who pays that, and the Employee is probably paying close to nothing.

toomuchtodo 9y ago

Texas is arguably one of the worst states in the US to live in (unless you're a high net worth individual), which doesn't bode well for a comparison against Canada. https://web.archive.org/web/20150401050939/https://www.texastribune.org/2011/02/14/texas-is-on-the-brink-legislative-study-group-says/ https://web.archive.org/web/20150401050939/https://www.texas...

geff82 9y ago
Well, I took it for an example (and I am a little Fanboy concerning Texas, forgive me having chosen it). There exist regions for about any taste in the US, it's such a diverse country.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
driverdan 9y ago
Article is from 2011 and you're ignoring the fact that TX is a very large state. There are a wide variety of places to live.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  I'm not ignoring the size of the state. That doesn't change its fundamental deficiencies. If anything, its size gives it the advantage of scales of efficiencies it doesn't take advantage because of politics.

giarc 9y ago

Not covered in the story, and my speculation, but his wife is a physician and that likely factored into their decision. Very different physician culture in Canada compared to the US.

wk_end 9y ago

Your overall point is totally correct, and as a Canadian I dislike the way Americans often perceive Canada as this place that's basically America but better - that they're entitled to move to in order to escape their issues with their own country. But I wish people would stop spreading the myth that Canadian taxes are necessarily significantly higher than American ones. The highest federal income tax bracket in Canada is taxed at 33% [1], which is very comparable to US rates. Certainly, provincial taxes do tend to push things a little higher, and by comparison there are US states with very low or non-existent tax rates. But if you live in SF or New York, with their high state and city taxes, your income tax burden would be barely any higher in Vancouver or Toronto. [1] https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/financial-toolkit/taxes/taxes-2/5.html https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/...