4 ms·

This is hysteria. You people are crazy. This is not nearly that big of a deal. I beg my fellow hacker news readers, get ahold of yourselves. This is a stellar

by mjfl 9y ago

This is hysteria. You people are crazy. This is not nearly that big of a deal. I beg my fellow hacker news readers, get ahold of yourselves. This is a stellar opportunity for this community to have some introspection. Are we capable of it? These kinds of posts are a mirror to what we badly want to be true, whether it is actually true or not. We, apparently, badly want Facebook and even moreso Mark Zuckerberg to fail. Why do we want that so badly?

thedevilslawyer 9y ago
Because we've allowed facebook, and it's ilk, to run rampant with our personal data and identity. Let's rein them in. With force.
sleavey 9y ago
I understand the anger directed at them. Facebook are the spearhead of the closed, privacy-invading web, and this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Most people reading HN probably remember the days when the web was open and free and you actually had to remember URLs to read interesting content on interesting websites, usually run by enthusiastic hobbyists, written as flat HTML sites without JavaScript bloat or supercookies. They're obviously not the only company at fault, but they're one of the biggest.
- greenyoda 9y ago
  "Most people reading HN probably remember the days when the web was open and free and you actually had to remember URLs to read interesting content on interesting websites, usually run by enthusiastic hobbyists, written as flat HTML sites without JavaScript bloat or supercookies." That open and free web is still out there, and as a non-FB user, that's the web I see every day. OK, my RSS reader remembers the URLs for me, and some of the sites are a bit bloated (which we have browser add-ons to fix), but there's definitely lots of good independent content still out there (and I've found lots of it by reading HN).
stickfigure 9y ago
Schadenfreude. This story is old and it does not speak well about the character of the people who embrace it. I personally find it disgusting. If you don't like the service, stop using it and shut up.
- usgroup 9y ago
  There’s a spectrum of understanding of what is being done with data. If you’re outside tech and data then it’s not easy to grasp and people underestimate what they are trading drastically, but they are lead to do so. It’s important to remember that you’re trading with other people. Regardless of the contract or their policy: it’s just humans on the other side with all the usual trappings.
taurath 9y ago
I think you have a good point - there are plenty of people who would love for Facebook to fail, and for something better to take its place. The promise of Facebook was great but it has nothing to do with the website anymore. They’ve paywalled and gatekept catching up with people with their network effect, to the point that a lot of reasonable people don’t think it’s worth the price. In a sense, Facebook has taken something away by changing people’s social behavior to feed their ad network. But then, I’m one person and not all hacker news readers.
t0mbstone 9y ago
Because Facebook used to be a place where you could go to see status updates from friends/family in chronological order. People posted what they were up to, and people left comments. Things were simple, and great. But then Facebook decided they needed to make some money. So they started allowing advertisers to inject things into your feed. They often tried to hide it in the form of "things liked by a friend of a friend", but it was still obvious. To make even more money, Facebook decided to do away with the pure chronological feed, and they replaced it with something much more vague. The vagueness of it all made it all that much easier for them to inject "recommended" content that they were getting paid to show to you. Nowadays, Facebook is completely unrecognizable. The vast majority of a typical Facebook feed is nothing more than memes, ads, and the equivalent of shitty email forwards. Scattered throughout the noise are just enough tidbits of things you actually want to see, from friends and family. Just enough to keep you hooked. People put up with it, but a sort of deep resentment has started to take hold. A lot of people are sick of being farmed by ad companies. They are tired of being a product. They are tired of seeing nothing but ads and stupid, tired memes. They long for the content and direct connection that made Facebook popular, but alas, it is never coming back. That kind of content doesn't make money for Facebook.
FabHK 9y ago
> badly want Facebook [...] to fail I can tell you my reasoning. Facebook latches onto a deep human need (for social embedment and human interaction), and cynically pushes a hollow substitute of that, while dishonestly invading your privacy, for money. Our body craves nourishing food and wholesome, sweet fruit, and has evolved preferences for fat and sugar. Then, today, along comes McDonalds and serves BigMac and Coke, carefully engineered for maximum alignment with our taste receptors at minimum cost. Facebook is the McDonaldisation of social. It's carefully engineered to exploit the hooks in your brain to keep you online as long as possible, make you reveal as much about you as possible, and come back as soon as possible. But it's even worse. McDonalds at least sells its stuff honestly and employs lots of people, somewhat ameliorating inequality. We here on HN know how Facebook monetises: data and ads, but most people did not know the details and depth of the tracking - that's why this story is such a ruckus. Facebook scales easily, so you get a few (relatively speaking) very well paid people, worsening inequality. And does it bring anything positive? Before Facebook, people were meeting, organising in clubs and associations, and communicating just fine, using newsletters, the phone, later mailing lists, etc. Increasingly now, with some organisations, it's hard to even stay informed or be invited to events if you refuse to use Facebook! Lastly, what galls me with Zuck is the pure hypocrisy. Talking about how nobody wants/needs privacy anymore, but purchasing the 4 houses around his in Palo Alto to have more privacy. Oh, and FWIW, your Econ 101 textbook free market can't fix this, as that theoretical model is predicated on full information and negative economies of scale. TL;DR: To me, Facebook is a despicable cynical near-monopolistic money making machine (for the few), run by a hypocrite peddling a fake, counterproductive "solution" to real human needs using the worst form of monetisation in a dishonest way.

by mjfl 9y ago

thedevilslawyer 9y ago

Because we've allowed facebook, and it's ilk, to run rampant with our personal data and identity. Let's rein them in. With force.

sleavey 9y ago

I understand the anger directed at them. Facebook are the spearhead of the closed, privacy-invading web, and this is the straw that broke the camel's back. Most people reading HN probably remember the days when the web was open and free and you actually had to remember URLs to read interesting content on interesting websites, usually run by enthusiastic hobbyists, written as flat HTML sites without JavaScript bloat or supercookies. They're obviously not the only company at fault, but they're one of the biggest.

greenyoda 9y ago
"Most people reading HN probably remember the days when the web was open and free and you actually had to remember URLs to read interesting content on interesting websites, usually run by enthusiastic hobbyists, written as flat HTML sites without JavaScript bloat or supercookies." That open and free web is still out there, and as a non-FB user, that's the web I see every day. OK, my RSS reader remembers the URLs for me, and some of the sites are a bit bloated (which we have browser add-ons to fix), but there's definitely lots of good independent content still out there (and I've found lots of it by reading HN).

stickfigure 9y ago

Schadenfreude. This story is old and it does not speak well about the character of the people who embrace it. I personally find it disgusting. If you don't like the service, stop using it and shut up.

usgroup 9y ago
There’s a spectrum of understanding of what is being done with data. If you’re outside tech and data then it’s not easy to grasp and people underestimate what they are trading drastically, but they are lead to do so. It’s important to remember that you’re trading with other people. Regardless of the contract or their policy: it’s just humans on the other side with all the usual trappings.

taurath 9y ago

I think you have a good point - there are plenty of people who would love for Facebook to fail, and for something better to take its place. The promise of Facebook was great but it has nothing to do with the website anymore. They’ve paywalled and gatekept catching up with people with their network effect, to the point that a lot of reasonable people don’t think it’s worth the price. In a sense, Facebook has taken something away by changing people’s social behavior to feed their ad network. But then, I’m one person and not all hacker news readers.

t0mbstone 9y ago

Because Facebook used to be a place where you could go to see status updates from friends/family in chronological order. People posted what they were up to, and people left comments. Things were simple, and great. But then Facebook decided they needed to make some money. So they started allowing advertisers to inject things into your feed. They often tried to hide it in the form of "things liked by a friend of a friend", but it was still obvious. To make even more money, Facebook decided to do away with the pure chronological feed, and they replaced it with something much more vague. The vagueness of it all made it all that much easier for them to inject "recommended" content that they were getting paid to show to you. Nowadays, Facebook is completely unrecognizable. The vast majority of a typical Facebook feed is nothing more than memes, ads, and the equivalent of shitty email forwards. Scattered throughout the noise are just enough tidbits of things you actually want to see, from friends and family. Just enough to keep you hooked. People put up with it, but a sort of deep resentment has started to take hold. A lot of people are sick of being farmed by ad companies. They are tired of being a product. They are tired of seeing nothing but ads and stupid, tired memes. They long for the content and direct connection that made Facebook popular, but alas, it is never coming back. That kind of content doesn't make money for Facebook.

FabHK 9y ago

> badly want Facebook [...] to fail I can tell you my reasoning. Facebook latches onto a deep human need (for social embedment and human interaction), and cynically pushes a hollow substitute of that, while dishonestly invading your privacy, for money. Our body craves nourishing food and wholesome, sweet fruit, and has evolved preferences for fat and sugar. Then, today, along comes McDonalds and serves BigMac and Coke, carefully engineered for maximum alignment with our taste receptors at minimum cost. Facebook is the McDonaldisation of social. It's carefully engineered to exploit the hooks in your brain to keep you online as long as possible, make you reveal as much about you as possible, and come back as soon as possible. But it's even worse. McDonalds at least sells its stuff honestly and employs lots of people, somewhat ameliorating inequality. We here on HN know how Facebook monetises: data and ads, but most people did not know the details and depth of the tracking - that's why this story is such a ruckus. Facebook scales easily, so you get a few (relatively speaking) very well paid people, worsening inequality. And does it bring anything positive? Before Facebook, people were meeting, organising in clubs and associations, and communicating just fine, using newsletters, the phone, later mailing lists, etc. Increasingly now, with some organisations, it's hard to even stay informed or be invited to events if you refuse to use Facebook! Lastly, what galls me with Zuck is the pure hypocrisy. Talking about how nobody wants/needs privacy anymore, but purchasing the 4 houses around his in Palo Alto to have more privacy. Oh, and FWIW, your Econ 101 textbook free market can't fix this, as that theoretical model is predicated on full information and negative economies of scale. TL;DR: To me, Facebook is a despicable cynical near-monopolistic money making machine (for the few), run by a hypocrite peddling a fake, counterproductive "solution" to real human needs using the worst form of monetisation in a dishonest way.