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Japan also has an entirely different relationship with residential buildings and real estate than we do. It’s so foreign to me that I have a hard time even bel

Japan also has an entirely different relationship with residential buildings and real estate than we do. It’s so foreign to me that I have a hard time even believing it and I can only vaguely describe it. But, effectively, houses don’t appreciate in Japan and they don’t like moving into houses other people have lived in before. It seems wasteful at first, but they also build very different types of homes. And, their homes are more optimized for the particular people living in them. And, the economy seems to greatly benefit from the adaptability this provides. But, please do your own research. I have visited and seen it for myself but still have a hard time comprehending all the differences.

shostack 9y ago
This sounds really fascinating--do you have any links or search terms to use to learn more about the differences in homes there? I'm particularly curious about the optimization for the people who live in the homes. What would drive that difference in attitude and behavior? I've also heard that Japanese homes aren't built to last and that they get rebuilt rather frequently by Western standards, although I'm not sure how true that is.
- aikinai 9y ago
  This is about the macro-effects of Japanese housing customs, not the optimization aspect you asked about, but it's an interesting and relevant article. https://www.nri.com/global/opinion/papers/2008/pdf/np2008137.pdf https://www.nri.com/global/opinion/papers/2008/pdf/np2008137... [PDF]
- molteanu 9y ago
  What do you mean by "not sure how true is that"? From the article: "Traditionally, Japanese homes were demolished and rebuilt every 20 to 30 years, to implement improved earthquake-safety technology, to provide jobs for government-favored construction companies or simply because Japanese people demanded nice new houses. As a result, there are relatively few Japanese homeowners trying to prop up the value of their houses by lobbying the government to restrict supply." Did you read the article?
- extralego 9y ago
  Sorry I don’t have links. When I visited many areas in Japan about 8 years ago, I just spoke to as many people as I could about it, which wasn’t many. Hardly anyone else found it so interesting as I did but I have failed to do much research since. The Japanese people I spoke with found the American system to be the strange one. Not surprising. As for the architecture, it’s very creative! Neighborhoods don’t really have the conventions of conformity like we have. Each house is free to be whatever it wants, but they are all very small compared to American houses. Most norms in Japanese culture seem to favor the group, cooperation and environments of mutual respect. I do remember pointing out that a few (very few) of the houses looked pretty old and they told me those people have probably lived in them since they were built and just haven’t wanted a new one.
- bane 9y ago
  There's some really great channels on this on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd8cgjH3154 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd8cgjH3154 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd8cgjH3154 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd8cgjH3154 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZfoMTPXZXE&list=PLE0D149A2A50898A3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZfoMTPXZXE&list=PLE0D149A2A...
- chrischen 9y ago
  They don’t particularly like old things, and so a building built in the 1980s would be considered an old house. As a result new buildings get built all the time and everything is nice and newly renovated everywhere you go, including the subways. One great example is stepping into the Ginza subway line, which is the first subway line in Tokyo (circa maybe 1920s or 1930s), and comparing it to the dungeons of some older NYC metro stations or London’s tubes.
  - sunstone 9y ago
    Japan is fond of its old temples though.
    - brazzy 9y ago
      Old temples yes, old temple buildings - not necessarily. The country's most holy Shinto shrine at Ise is ceremonially torn down and rebuilt every 20 years. Most other temples need parts of the building (like the roof) replaced every now and then, and have burned down a few times over the centuries. There's really only a handful of temple buildings that have parts that are more than 500 years old.
- etruong42 9y ago
  Here is Freakonomics coverage on the practice: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-are-japanese-homes-disposable-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-3/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-are-japanese-homes-dispo...
twelvechairs 9y ago
Japan also has a cultural interest in space that the west does not. Case in point for me was seeing a major japanese house builders website - their top marketing point was a ~1.3m/4.5ft high space in their home. With examples of someone using it as a (sit on floor) workdesk, a childrens play area, a library, storage space etc. This would not fly anywhere in the west. As noted its also typical to modify a family home over time - maybe one child moves out and another starts a hair salon in their old ground floor room (yes the planning rules allow this) Demolishing a home is also related to historic cultural use if timber where in the west the wealthy built out of brick and stone for the ages
new299 9y ago
Residential houses are often built using wooden frames, or a metal frame with everything else made of wood. Japan is humid, so if there's poor drainage the wood rots. Japan has Earthquakes, I guess that causes subsidence and other structural issues. Construction is of varying quality. I've seen houses in the countryside (Showa era, maybe 70s 80s?) which literally look like they found a nice rock and decided to use it as a foundation for a house. Mostly the foundations are not as I'd expect to see them in the UK (where I'm from). If you remove the Tatami flooring, there's a thinish piece of wood, under that there's Earth. So what it comes down to is that because many houses are made of wood, and because of Earthquakes, houses kind of get structurally unsound over time. At some point it's just more economical to pull the house down and build a new one than it is to renovate it. This is my understanding anyway. I don't understand planning permission in Japan well, but it seems easier to get than I'm used to seeing (in the UK). Perhaps that helps depress land value. People seem to find moving not wanting a house someone has died in weird. I think it's more understandable with houses that last a relatively short time... deaths, and suicides that have occurred in a house need to be declared when the house is sold. It decreases the value of the house somewhat. Somehow all of this has contributed resulted in much more (to my mind) reasonable housing prices, at least outside central Tokyo. I've just bought a house in Japan (with my wife) so a lot of this stuff is on my mind. If anybody would like to talk further, my email is in my profile.

shostack 9y ago

This sounds really fascinating--do you have any links or search terms to use to learn more about the differences in homes there? I'm particularly curious about the optimization for the people who live in the homes. What would drive that difference in attitude and behavior? I've also heard that Japanese homes aren't built to last and that they get rebuilt rather frequently by Western standards, although I'm not sure how true that is.

aikinai 9y ago
This is about the macro-effects of Japanese housing customs, not the optimization aspect you asked about, but it's an interesting and relevant article. https://www.nri.com/global/opinion/papers/2008/pdf/np2008137.pdf https://www.nri.com/global/opinion/papers/2008/pdf/np2008137... [PDF]
molteanu 9y ago
What do you mean by "not sure how true is that"? From the article: "Traditionally, Japanese homes were demolished and rebuilt every 20 to 30 years, to implement improved earthquake-safety technology, to provide jobs for government-favored construction companies or simply because Japanese people demanded nice new houses. As a result, there are relatively few Japanese homeowners trying to prop up the value of their houses by lobbying the government to restrict supply." Did you read the article?
extralego 9y ago
Sorry I don’t have links. When I visited many areas in Japan about 8 years ago, I just spoke to as many people as I could about it, which wasn’t many. Hardly anyone else found it so interesting as I did but I have failed to do much research since. The Japanese people I spoke with found the American system to be the strange one. Not surprising. As for the architecture, it’s very creative! Neighborhoods don’t really have the conventions of conformity like we have. Each house is free to be whatever it wants, but they are all very small compared to American houses. Most norms in Japanese culture seem to favor the group, cooperation and environments of mutual respect. I do remember pointing out that a few (very few) of the houses looked pretty old and they told me those people have probably lived in them since they were built and just haven’t wanted a new one.
bane 9y ago
There's some really great channels on this on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd8cgjH3154 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd8cgjH3154 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd8cgjH3154 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd8cgjH3154 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZfoMTPXZXE&list=PLE0D149A2A50898A3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZfoMTPXZXE&list=PLE0D149A2A...
chrischen 9y ago
They don’t particularly like old things, and so a building built in the 1980s would be considered an old house. As a result new buildings get built all the time and everything is nice and newly renovated everywhere you go, including the subways. One great example is stepping into the Ginza subway line, which is the first subway line in Tokyo (circa maybe 1920s or 1930s), and comparing it to the dungeons of some older NYC metro stations or London’s tubes.
- sunstone 9y ago
  Japan is fond of its old temples though.
  - brazzy 9y ago
    Old temples yes, old temple buildings - not necessarily. The country's most holy Shinto shrine at Ise is ceremonially torn down and rebuilt every 20 years. Most other temples need parts of the building (like the roof) replaced every now and then, and have burned down a few times over the centuries. There's really only a handful of temple buildings that have parts that are more than 500 years old.
etruong42 9y ago
Here is Freakonomics coverage on the practice: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-are-japanese-homes-disposable-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast-3/ http://freakonomics.com/podcast/why-are-japanese-homes-dispo...

twelvechairs 9y ago

Japan also has a cultural interest in space that the west does not. Case in point for me was seeing a major japanese house builders website - their top marketing point was a ~1.3m/4.5ft high space in their home. With examples of someone using it as a (sit on floor) workdesk, a childrens play area, a library, storage space etc. This would not fly anywhere in the west. As noted its also typical to modify a family home over time - maybe one child moves out and another starts a hair salon in their old ground floor room (yes the planning rules allow this) Demolishing a home is also related to historic cultural use if timber where in the west the wealthy built out of brick and stone for the ages

new299 9y ago

Residential houses are often built using wooden frames, or a metal frame with everything else made of wood. Japan is humid, so if there's poor drainage the wood rots. Japan has Earthquakes, I guess that causes subsidence and other structural issues. Construction is of varying quality. I've seen houses in the countryside (Showa era, maybe 70s 80s?) which literally look like they found a nice rock and decided to use it as a foundation for a house. Mostly the foundations are not as I'd expect to see them in the UK (where I'm from). If you remove the Tatami flooring, there's a thinish piece of wood, under that there's Earth. So what it comes down to is that because many houses are made of wood, and because of Earthquakes, houses kind of get structurally unsound over time. At some point it's just more economical to pull the house down and build a new one than it is to renovate it. This is my understanding anyway. I don't understand planning permission in Japan well, but it seems easier to get than I'm used to seeing (in the UK). Perhaps that helps depress land value. People seem to find moving not wanting a house someone has died in weird. I think it's more understandable with houses that last a relatively short time... deaths, and suicides that have occurred in a house need to be declared when the house is sold. It decreases the value of the house somewhat. Somehow all of this has contributed resulted in much more (to my mind) reasonable housing prices, at least outside central Tokyo. I've just bought a house in Japan (with my wife) so a lot of this stuff is on my mind. If anybody would like to talk further, my email is in my profile.