5 ms·

Yep, it's also a known tactic for deflection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

jayess 9y ago
...by using the latest, greatest new term to shut down debate and avoid addressing the concept of being intellectually honest.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- bduerst 9y ago
  Whataboutism isn't new, nor is it intellectually dishonest to point out when it's being used. Soviets started using it during the cold war era, and it's still in use as a deflection tactic today.
  - eric_h 9y ago
    > Whataboutism isn't new You are absolutely correct, however I would argue that it has only relatively recently entered the common HN lexicon. The vast majority (~675 out of 704^) of comments using it here in the comments are < 2 yrs old. Admittedly the first comment on HN that used the term is 7 years old, but that comment [0] predates the creation of the wikipedia article (frequently trotted out when invoking the term here) by about a year. As an aside, I'd love see a dataviz app that shows the lifecycle of terminology and memes that thrive in various internet discussion boards. 0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2944345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2944345 ^well it'll be 705 including this post ;)
    - bduerst 9y ago
      Interesting timeframe on increased usage on HN. That may be correlated with the current president of the United States using it frequently: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Use_by_Donald_Trump https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Use_by_Donald_T... Again, that still doesn't make it new or intellectually dishonest to point out.
SmirkingRevenge 9y ago
Its also become a bit of a convenient shield for many to avoid confronting/admitting their own side's double-standards or bad-faith power politicking. Not accusing you of the above, but "Whataboutism" is as old as double-standards it draws attention to. But IMHO the accusation is more often use for ill than for good.
- bduerst 9y ago
  It's a false dichotomy to assume that everyone has a "side", and pushing that is part of the deflection.

jayess 9y ago

...by using the latest, greatest new term to shut down debate and avoid addressing the concept of being intellectually honest.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
bduerst 9y ago
Whataboutism isn't new, nor is it intellectually dishonest to point out when it's being used. Soviets started using it during the cold war era, and it's still in use as a deflection tactic today.
- eric_h 9y ago
  > Whataboutism isn't new You are absolutely correct, however I would argue that it has only relatively recently entered the common HN lexicon. The vast majority (~675 out of 704^) of comments using it here in the comments are < 2 yrs old. Admittedly the first comment on HN that used the term is 7 years old, but that comment [0] predates the creation of the wikipedia article (frequently trotted out when invoking the term here) by about a year. As an aside, I'd love see a dataviz app that shows the lifecycle of terminology and memes that thrive in various internet discussion boards. 0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2944345 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2944345 ^well it'll be 705 including this post ;)
  - bduerst 9y ago
    Interesting timeframe on increased usage on HN. That may be correlated with the current president of the United States using it frequently: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Use_by_Donald_Trump https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Use_by_Donald_T... Again, that still doesn't make it new or intellectually dishonest to point out.

SmirkingRevenge 9y ago

Its also become a bit of a convenient shield for many to avoid confronting/admitting their own side's double-standards or bad-faith power politicking. Not accusing you of the above, but "Whataboutism" is as old as double-standards it draws attention to. But IMHO the accusation is more often use for ill than for good.

bduerst 9y ago
It's a false dichotomy to assume that everyone has a "side", and pushing that is part of the deflection.