5 ms·

New highly unpopular Reddit policy bans popular beer, cigar, and gun communities

31 points by losvedir 9y ago

losvedir 9y ago
I know the link title is supposed to copy the page's title, but I thought that would be confusing in this case. But I've since found news articles (e.g. [0]) that better contextualize what's going on, so maybe something like that would be a better link. [0] https://gizmodo.com/reddit-bans-slew-of-communities-amid-new-rule-targeting-1823961868 https://gizmodo.com/reddit-bans-slew-of-communities-amid-new...
chis 9y ago
An interesting decision. I guess they’re playing it safe but it’s hard to see how reddit could be held liable for people using their site to exchange beer.
- fatjokes 9y ago
  Accidentally facilitating alcohol sales to minors.
homonculus1 9y ago
I've always gotten a guilty thrill out of watching reddit's policy shitstorms, and often agreed with the criticism of their decisions, but this is the one that truly makes me want leave. Discussing gun purchases is not only perfectly legal, it is also not even hateful as many previously banned subs were. I interpret this as a clear, intentional move toward pushing gun ownership outside the realm of social acceptability and associating it with illicit and toxic communities. For seven years I've treasured the freedom to find and freely participate in niche communities on reddit that wouldn't flourish in the same way elsewhere, and although I wasn't happy about the sanitization before, it now seems to have reached an inflection point where political wrongthink is also being targeted.
- Digital-Citizen 9y ago
  It could be schadenfreude to see all of these single-point-of-censorship sites (including this one) give us all good reason to favor having discussions on netnews (which is no panacea but far more free, by design, than any discussion website). In my view, "moderation points" are censorship. Moderation points are censorship where the rules are even less clear than Reddit's. The rules for what's allowed are always changing, and no site has come up with a way to handle moderation point assignment in a way that is clearly distinguishable from capricious censorship. What's legal strikes me as besides the point; the Internet is global so what's legal in one regime might be illegal in another. But since Reddit (and Hacker News, for all I know) are hosted in the US, it's worth pointing out that freedom of speech is trampled on in the US ("Defending Pornography" does a very good job of discussing how American law has double standards with sexually-related speech, for example, by offering censorship in ways Americans would not tolerate for nonsexual speech). Private organizations (such as Reddit, Hacker News, etc.) have no obligation to honor freedom of speech, they're allowed to be remarkably censorious. So whether state-based or private but hosted in the US, free speech is always met with some reaction like "I believe in freedom of speech but there ought to be limits..." and then we're off to learn where the limits are with this person, that topic, or this minute.
  - flounders 9y ago
    Usenet may just be the solution for the time being, especially for some of the displaced subreddits for interest specific discussions and posts. At this point a protocol looks like it will be the answer like email, IRC and XMPP, but for forum discussion instead. If IPFS makes some headway with having dynamic content, that may work better, but I'm not sure where that is at right now.
- cirgue 9y ago
  > Discussing gun purchases is not only perfectly legal, it is also not even hateful as many previously banned subs were. And not nearly as hateful as a plethora of currently-active subs.
- coolgeek 9y ago
  They are not banning discussions. They are "forbidding transactions for certain goods and services" It's literally the first sentence of the post Edit to add that the HN title is misleading, too. The post says nothing about banning "communities", only about banning transactions
fatjokes 9y ago
Tl;Dr new us law means internet platforms are responsible for the content posted by their users
- losvedir 9y ago
  Which law is that? That would make sense to me as a reason, but wouldn't they say so in the post?
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2018/03/21/591622450/section-230-a-key-legal-shield-for-facebook-google-is-about-to-change https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2018/03/21/59...
SamPatt 9y ago
One sub closed where people would offer listings on OpenBazaar, /r/bazaarmarkets. Most listings there were above board iirc. Not sure what their criteria was exactly.
- JarlUlvi 9y ago
  Anything that offends their particular sensibilities..
olliej 9y ago
Needs to be retitled- this isn’t about cigar/gun/beer communities - it states in the first paragraph that it applies to the /sale/ of those items.
vincengomes 9y ago
If this is the direction reddit is going, expect niche subreddits like emulators getting banned
sunstone 9y ago
For those who haven't read the policy, what's banned is not the discussion of beer, tobacco and guns but discussion about buying beer, tobacco and guns (and other products or services) from private sources. Clearly there will be some grey areas, such as a legal prostitute in Nevada offering sexual services. But my sense of this is that some authorities are leaning on Reddit, just as they have leaned on Craig's List and Backpage (and others) in the past, to deter dark web type activities.

31 points by losvedir 9y ago

I know the link title is supposed to copy the page's title, but I thought that would be confusing in this case. But I've since found news articles (e.g. [0]) that better contextualize what's going on, so maybe something like that would be a better link. [0] https://gizmodo.com/reddit-bans-slew-of-communities-amid-new-rule-targeting-1823961868 https://gizmodo.com/reddit-bans-slew-of-communities-amid-new...

chis 9y ago

An interesting decision. I guess they’re playing it safe but it’s hard to see how reddit could be held liable for people using their site to exchange beer.

fatjokes 9y ago
Accidentally facilitating alcohol sales to minors.

homonculus1 9y ago

I've always gotten a guilty thrill out of watching reddit's policy shitstorms, and often agreed with the criticism of their decisions, but this is the one that truly makes me want leave. Discussing gun purchases is not only perfectly legal, it is also not even hateful as many previously banned subs were. I interpret this as a clear, intentional move toward pushing gun ownership outside the realm of social acceptability and associating it with illicit and toxic communities. For seven years I've treasured the freedom to find and freely participate in niche communities on reddit that wouldn't flourish in the same way elsewhere, and although I wasn't happy about the sanitization before, it now seems to have reached an inflection point where political wrongthink is also being targeted.

Digital-Citizen 9y ago
It could be schadenfreude to see all of these single-point-of-censorship sites (including this one) give us all good reason to favor having discussions on netnews (which is no panacea but far more free, by design, than any discussion website). In my view, "moderation points" are censorship. Moderation points are censorship where the rules are even less clear than Reddit's. The rules for what's allowed are always changing, and no site has come up with a way to handle moderation point assignment in a way that is clearly distinguishable from capricious censorship. What's legal strikes me as besides the point; the Internet is global so what's legal in one regime might be illegal in another. But since Reddit (and Hacker News, for all I know) are hosted in the US, it's worth pointing out that freedom of speech is trampled on in the US ("Defending Pornography" does a very good job of discussing how American law has double standards with sexually-related speech, for example, by offering censorship in ways Americans would not tolerate for nonsexual speech). Private organizations (such as Reddit, Hacker News, etc.) have no obligation to honor freedom of speech, they're allowed to be remarkably censorious. So whether state-based or private but hosted in the US, free speech is always met with some reaction like "I believe in freedom of speech but there ought to be limits..." and then we're off to learn where the limits are with this person, that topic, or this minute.
- flounders 9y ago
  Usenet may just be the solution for the time being, especially for some of the displaced subreddits for interest specific discussions and posts. At this point a protocol looks like it will be the answer like email, IRC and XMPP, but for forum discussion instead. If IPFS makes some headway with having dynamic content, that may work better, but I'm not sure where that is at right now.
cirgue 9y ago
> Discussing gun purchases is not only perfectly legal, it is also not even hateful as many previously banned subs were. And not nearly as hateful as a plethora of currently-active subs.
coolgeek 9y ago
They are not banning discussions. They are "forbidding transactions for certain goods and services" It's literally the first sentence of the post Edit to add that the HN title is misleading, too. The post says nothing about banning "communities", only about banning transactions

fatjokes 9y ago

Tl;Dr new us law means internet platforms are responsible for the content posted by their users

losvedir 9y ago
Which law is that? That would make sense to me as a reason, but wouldn't they say so in the post?
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2018/03/21/591622450/section-230-a-key-legal-shield-for-facebook-google-is-about-to-change https://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2018/03/21/59...

SamPatt 9y ago

One sub closed where people would offer listings on OpenBazaar, /r/bazaarmarkets. Most listings there were above board iirc. Not sure what their criteria was exactly.

JarlUlvi 9y ago
Anything that offends their particular sensibilities..

olliej 9y ago

Needs to be retitled- this isn’t about cigar/gun/beer communities - it states in the first paragraph that it applies to the /sale/ of those items.

vincengomes 9y ago

If this is the direction reddit is going, expect niche subreddits like emulators getting banned

sunstone 9y ago

For those who haven't read the policy, what's banned is not the discussion of beer, tobacco and guns but discussion about buying beer, tobacco and guns (and other products or services) from private sources. Clearly there will be some grey areas, such as a legal prostitute in Nevada offering sexual services. But my sense of this is that some authorities are leaning on Reddit, just as they have leaned on Craig's List and Backpage (and others) in the past, to deter dark web type activities.