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1000 word statement. Number of times the word "advertising" was mentioned: 0 Facebook continues to pretend it's business model is unicorns and kittens, not se

1000 word statement. Number of times the word "advertising" was mentioned: 0 Facebook continues to pretend it's business model is unicorns and kittens, not selling user data for money.

nabla9 9y ago
It was standard crisis management PR sermon. "learn from this experience", "doesn't change what happened in the past. ", "responsibility", "going forward", "together". You find this same boilerplate from athletes who beat their wife, do drugs, or kill people.
- busterarm 9y ago
  ...and go on to continue to beat their wife, do drugs...
- jd20 9y ago
  I had a very hard time imagining Zuckerberg actually writing these words, it just felt too carefully crafted and full of standard PR tropes. The CNN interview should be interesting, then we can hear the actual words from his mouth.
  - Steko 9y ago
    The words he's been rehearsing in hours of mock interviews with the same PR hacks, for the last couple days.
    - avoutthere 9y ago
      I imagine he'll be answering questions provided to CNN by the Facebook PR team.
      - Steko 9y ago
        No need to create the paper trail, the "hard hitting"-looking questions any tv news outlet is going to ask are incredibly predictable.
- Thriptic 9y ago
  Exactly this; no one is sorry, they're sorry they got caught after the fact. This is simply an attempt at ass covering and shifting blame onto Cambridge Analytica so users / investors / governments don't sue Facebook.
  - automoton1 9y ago
    Should Facebook be sued?
    - snake117 9y ago
      I want to say yes, but there is a problem with suing these sorts of monopolistic companies. If Facebook were to be sued, for lets say $100 million in a class action lawsuit, even if they end up paying, it ultimately won't change their behavior. They have enough money to pay that, take a small hit in their earnings for the short term, and then continue as if nothing happened.
  - Kalium 9y ago
    You're absolutely right. This is a bullshit non-apology in which nobody is actually sorry for anything. It's crap and does nothing but try to shift blame. Yet, maybe it serves a purpose? It doesn't matter how sorry they actually feel, nobody is going to feel better from a large, public, self-flagellating apology. Nobody is going to be happier or more mollified or satisfied. All it's going to accomplish is to provide grist for the lawsuit mill - after all, why apologize if you're not guilty? Again, you're completely right. They're clearly not sorry.
- Spooky23 9y ago
  Thoughts and prayers that our random business partners will behave.
- Exuma 9y ago
  I always see people say this after any PR crises... but how would you say it instead if not that? Is there a way to be truly creative and not shoot yourself in the foot at the same time?
- mhaymo 9y ago
  He laid out what happened, and several concrete actions they're taking to prevent it from recurring. That's not boilerplate.
  - philipodonnell 9y ago
    I think people are sort of doubtful they will really follow through whole-heartedly with what Zuck wrote, because that's sort of their MO.
harryh 9y ago
Facebook doesn't sell user data for money. It sells targeted advertising for money. There is a huge difference.
- munk-a 9y ago
  Yea, actually selling their user data would put them out of business... Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free?
  - joering2 9y ago
    You meant: why sell the cow once, if you can continue to sell milk indefinitely :)
    - austinjp 9y ago
      Sell the premuim quality cow to buy two crappy cows. Sell their crappy milk dirt cheap to undercut the premium quality milk market. Invest, repeat, and race to the bottom.
    - sorokod 9y ago
      Because cows don't provide milk indefinitely? Because you get more money for a cow than milk over a long time period and can use the cash to expand the cow-selling business?
      - munk-a 9y ago
        I think this thread has jumped over the moon... (And that original metaphor was a bit mismatched, actually.)
- anonnel 9y ago
  2018’s 3P data and tracking tech no longer needs to violate FB policy to do what was done in 2013. FB provides a platform for ads, sure, but it can be used for way more than just ads. 3P tracking can infer who (even specifically) is viewing ads and it knows the social graph by other means. It can also do effective mass psychometric tests. A/B testing infrastructure can be used for more than just optimizing ads ... all of the psychometric dimensions tested by Kogan’s 2013 app can be expressed as embedded imagery and messaging in ads, and the same types of tests can operate at the same scale by integrating 3P data and tracking (some of which certainly originates from policy-compliant FB apps) which already knows the social graph beyond what FB will allow a single app or ad to draw.
xkjkls 9y ago
It's not really selling it's user data for money; it's selling access to it's users for money. Sure, user data allows some advanced targeting, but the reason they make the profit they do is that people are buying ads for people to see, not data about them. That's an important distinction.
- pishpash 9y ago
  They are selling market making for an ad market. Any market is a trade of both value and information.
  - xkjkls 9y ago
    I disagree, because Facebook's incentive is to keep all their information to themselves in an advertising business. If their the only ones who have it, then in order to get the same form of targeting you have to pay them.
    - anonnel 9y ago
      It’s not possible for them to keep targeting data to themselves. Targeted campaign products leak data about the user’s targeted attributes by their very nature. If you want FB’s targeting data, simply buy targeted campaigns and associate the target attributes with the users who click once they are on your server. At scale, the targeting data is transparent. Big ad analytics companies and ad exchanges can and do basically sit in the center of many campaigns and slurp up the targeting data which is naturally leaking from FB by virtue of their selling capaigns based on those targets. Whether they want to or not, they are selling their data. Edit: Care to reply instead of downvote? Is everything above not true?
- anonnel 9y ago
  Most people are buying ads for people to see. Some others, however, are using the platform as access to user’s extensive 3P data, once they click and are shuffled through multiple shady ad exchanges gathering and selling data, including the social graph. Some others, like CA and ilk, also get easy access to user’s psychometric data, by embedding the psychometrics into A/B tested ad content. The adage “you are the product” has only become more true as FB has advanced, whether by their intended or explicit policies or not.
macspoofing 9y ago
Who doesn't know Facebook sells targeted ads?
- gwicks56 9y ago
  People outside of the tech world, in general, do not really know what the "targeted" in targeted ads means though. They think advertising, they think ads in the NYT or on TV. People do "know", but unless you really think about it, or understand how it works, its invasiveness can be easily overlooked.
seem_2211 9y ago
All I want is Mark Zuckerberg to say is "this isn't a community, we're a multi billion dollar company. We have a pretty cool website where you can do a bunch of stuff, and we mine your personal data (and sell it) to pay for it. Sound like a good deal? We think so." But no, we've got to pretend Facebook is a touchy-feely community. I get the feeling that Facebook is ashamed of the way they make their billions.
- rock_hard 9y ago
  Why do you have such a hard time believing that he is well intended? You seem lost in a false narrative that he is out to get you :( I challenge you to rethink your position assuming he means well...just for the fun of it...and share with us what your conclusion would be
  - croshan 9y ago
    You're talking about the same guy who said: > Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard > Zuck: Just ask > Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS > [Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one? > Zuck: People just submitted it. > Zuck: I don't know why. > Zuck: They "trust me" > Zuck: Dumb fucks If you actually do think he means well, you're a very nice person. Or incredibly delusional.
    - askafriend 9y ago
      Stop repeating this meme. It's not productive and doesn't help drive the conversation forward in any way. He said those things when he was 19 years old and Facebook was still a random side project in college. And yes people were indeed "dumb fucks" to give a random college kid with a side project their personal information. If you went around Walmart and asked people for their SSNs with no value proposition, then they would indeed be dumb as well. The $400 billion company that Facebook is now and the growth a person goes through over decades of being a CEO and managing people is significant. For you to bring up something the guy said when he was a kid is disingenuous and does more to harm any point you may have had than help it.
kakarot 9y ago
Yeah, I just took this to mean they were mad they weren't, from their perspective, properly compensated for such valuable data.
uberman 9y ago
Interesting, that is same as the number of times "sorry" and "apologize" was used apparently.
troycarlson 9y ago
I like the part where he says, "We have a responsibility to protect your data, and if we can't then we don't deserve to serve you." Facebook doesn't "serve" consumers, it built an RPG that harvests user data and sells it to the highest bidder.

1000 word statement. Number of times the word "advertising" was mentioned: 0 Facebook continues to pretend it's business model is unicorns and kittens, not selling user data for money.

nabla9 9y ago

It was standard crisis management PR sermon. "learn from this experience", "doesn't change what happened in the past. ", "responsibility", "going forward", "together". You find this same boilerplate from athletes who beat their wife, do drugs, or kill people.

busterarm 9y ago
...and go on to continue to beat their wife, do drugs...
jd20 9y ago
I had a very hard time imagining Zuckerberg actually writing these words, it just felt too carefully crafted and full of standard PR tropes. The CNN interview should be interesting, then we can hear the actual words from his mouth.
- Steko 9y ago
  The words he's been rehearsing in hours of mock interviews with the same PR hacks, for the last couple days.
  - avoutthere 9y ago
    I imagine he'll be answering questions provided to CNN by the Facebook PR team.
    - Steko 9y ago
      No need to create the paper trail, the "hard hitting"-looking questions any tv news outlet is going to ask are incredibly predictable.
Thriptic 9y ago
Exactly this; no one is sorry, they're sorry they got caught after the fact. This is simply an attempt at ass covering and shifting blame onto Cambridge Analytica so users / investors / governments don't sue Facebook.
- automoton1 9y ago
  Should Facebook be sued?
  - snake117 9y ago
    I want to say yes, but there is a problem with suing these sorts of monopolistic companies. If Facebook were to be sued, for lets say $100 million in a class action lawsuit, even if they end up paying, it ultimately won't change their behavior. They have enough money to pay that, take a small hit in their earnings for the short term, and then continue as if nothing happened.
- Kalium 9y ago
  You're absolutely right. This is a bullshit non-apology in which nobody is actually sorry for anything. It's crap and does nothing but try to shift blame. Yet, maybe it serves a purpose? It doesn't matter how sorry they actually feel, nobody is going to feel better from a large, public, self-flagellating apology. Nobody is going to be happier or more mollified or satisfied. All it's going to accomplish is to provide grist for the lawsuit mill - after all, why apologize if you're not guilty? Again, you're completely right. They're clearly not sorry.
Spooky23 9y ago
Thoughts and prayers that our random business partners will behave.
Exuma 9y ago
I always see people say this after any PR crises... but how would you say it instead if not that? Is there a way to be truly creative and not shoot yourself in the foot at the same time?
mhaymo 9y ago
He laid out what happened, and several concrete actions they're taking to prevent it from recurring. That's not boilerplate.
- philipodonnell 9y ago
  I think people are sort of doubtful they will really follow through whole-heartedly with what Zuck wrote, because that's sort of their MO.

harryh 9y ago

Facebook doesn't sell user data for money. It sells targeted advertising for money. There is a huge difference.

munk-a 9y ago
Yea, actually selling their user data would put them out of business... Why buy the cow if you can get the milk for free?
- joering2 9y ago
  You meant: why sell the cow once, if you can continue to sell milk indefinitely :)
  - austinjp 9y ago
    Sell the premuim quality cow to buy two crappy cows. Sell their crappy milk dirt cheap to undercut the premium quality milk market. Invest, repeat, and race to the bottom.
  - sorokod 9y ago
    Because cows don't provide milk indefinitely? Because you get more money for a cow than milk over a long time period and can use the cash to expand the cow-selling business?
    - munk-a 9y ago
      I think this thread has jumped over the moon... (And that original metaphor was a bit mismatched, actually.)
anonnel 9y ago
2018’s 3P data and tracking tech no longer needs to violate FB policy to do what was done in 2013. FB provides a platform for ads, sure, but it can be used for way more than just ads. 3P tracking can infer who (even specifically) is viewing ads and it knows the social graph by other means. It can also do effective mass psychometric tests. A/B testing infrastructure can be used for more than just optimizing ads ... all of the psychometric dimensions tested by Kogan’s 2013 app can be expressed as embedded imagery and messaging in ads, and the same types of tests can operate at the same scale by integrating 3P data and tracking (some of which certainly originates from policy-compliant FB apps) which already knows the social graph beyond what FB will allow a single app or ad to draw.

xkjkls 9y ago

It's not really selling it's user data for money; it's selling access to it's users for money. Sure, user data allows some advanced targeting, but the reason they make the profit they do is that people are buying ads for people to see, not data about them. That's an important distinction.

pishpash 9y ago
They are selling market making for an ad market. Any market is a trade of both value and information.
- xkjkls 9y ago
  I disagree, because Facebook's incentive is to keep all their information to themselves in an advertising business. If their the only ones who have it, then in order to get the same form of targeting you have to pay them.
  - anonnel 9y ago
    It’s not possible for them to keep targeting data to themselves. Targeted campaign products leak data about the user’s targeted attributes by their very nature. If you want FB’s targeting data, simply buy targeted campaigns and associate the target attributes with the users who click once they are on your server. At scale, the targeting data is transparent. Big ad analytics companies and ad exchanges can and do basically sit in the center of many campaigns and slurp up the targeting data which is naturally leaking from FB by virtue of their selling capaigns based on those targets. Whether they want to or not, they are selling their data. Edit: Care to reply instead of downvote? Is everything above not true?
anonnel 9y ago
Most people are buying ads for people to see. Some others, however, are using the platform as access to user’s extensive 3P data, once they click and are shuffled through multiple shady ad exchanges gathering and selling data, including the social graph. Some others, like CA and ilk, also get easy access to user’s psychometric data, by embedding the psychometrics into A/B tested ad content. The adage “you are the product” has only become more true as FB has advanced, whether by their intended or explicit policies or not.

macspoofing 9y ago

Who doesn't know Facebook sells targeted ads?

gwicks56 9y ago
People outside of the tech world, in general, do not really know what the "targeted" in targeted ads means though. They think advertising, they think ads in the NYT or on TV. People do "know", but unless you really think about it, or understand how it works, its invasiveness can be easily overlooked.

seem_2211 9y ago

All I want is Mark Zuckerberg to say is "this isn't a community, we're a multi billion dollar company. We have a pretty cool website where you can do a bunch of stuff, and we mine your personal data (and sell it) to pay for it. Sound like a good deal? We think so." But no, we've got to pretend Facebook is a touchy-feely community. I get the feeling that Facebook is ashamed of the way they make their billions.

rock_hard 9y ago
Why do you have such a hard time believing that he is well intended? You seem lost in a false narrative that he is out to get you :( I challenge you to rethink your position assuming he means well...just for the fun of it...and share with us what your conclusion would be
- croshan 9y ago
  You're talking about the same guy who said: > Zuck: Yeah so if you ever need info about anyone at Harvard > Zuck: Just ask > Zuck: I have over 4,000 emails, pictures, addresses, SNS > [Redacted Friend's Name]: What? How'd you manage that one? > Zuck: People just submitted it. > Zuck: I don't know why. > Zuck: They "trust me" > Zuck: Dumb fucks If you actually do think he means well, you're a very nice person. Or incredibly delusional.
  - askafriend 9y ago
    Stop repeating this meme. It's not productive and doesn't help drive the conversation forward in any way. He said those things when he was 19 years old and Facebook was still a random side project in college. And yes people were indeed "dumb fucks" to give a random college kid with a side project their personal information. If you went around Walmart and asked people for their SSNs with no value proposition, then they would indeed be dumb as well. The $400 billion company that Facebook is now and the growth a person goes through over decades of being a CEO and managing people is significant. For you to bring up something the guy said when he was a kid is disingenuous and does more to harm any point you may have had than help it.

kakarot 9y ago

Yeah, I just took this to mean they were mad they weren't, from their perspective, properly compensated for such valuable data.

uberman 9y ago

Interesting, that is same as the number of times "sorry" and "apologize" was used apparently.

troycarlson 9y ago

I like the part where he says, "We have a responsibility to protect your data, and if we can't then we don't deserve to serve you." Facebook doesn't "serve" consumers, it built an RPG that harvests user data and sells it to the highest bidder.