3 ms·

You're correct, and that's exactly why I used seems. Strong, but not conclusively causal.

mistermann 9y ago
Not that it matters, and it likely wasn't your intent, but this style of "conversationally but not technically" (for lack of a better term) writing bothers me, as it's not crystal clear what the intended message or information is. I'm noticing this style of writing is becoming increasingly common in the media as well, which might explain why so many people believe things that aren't true. I'll get off my soapbox now.
- pmarreck 9y ago
  If only it were possible to establish factual causal relationships with 100% certainty 100% of the time... sadly we do not have that utopia and must thus deal with language that speaks in terms of degrees of certainty
  - mistermann 9y ago
    What I'm referring to is the increasing frequency of newspaper and TV to use language that technically doesn't claim things to be fact, if you parse the words veeeeeeeery carefully, but a casual reader (aka the vast majority of the public) might easily conclude what is presented is fact, rather than just possibilities or allegations. Or in other words, language that hides uncertainty from the consumer. As I noted, this probably wasn't your intent, but I'd like to think it doesn't hurt to point out. Sometimes clarity matters, sometimes it doesn't. For example, not that it particularly matters, even in this conversation, based on your last comment I'm still left with somewhat of a feeling that you don't necessarily agree with this notion. On one hand, who cares right? On the other hand, large portions of the general public absolutely believe with 100% certainty things that are at best allegations at this point, because they have read or watched so many news stories that intentionally or not are worded to make possibilities sound as if they are facts. I think this is a very big deal, and if the higher caliber of people on HN don't, to me that also is a big deal.
    - pmarreck 9y ago
      I think what you're describing is essentially dishonesty, and I would join you against it were it to come to that. I am frankly deeply unsettled by the "allegations are facts" flavor of current "debate". Have we not learned anything since the Salem witch trials?
      - mistermann 9y ago
        We're not learning much that serves overall humanity lately, at least in North America.

Not that it matters, and it likely wasn't your intent, but this style of "conversationally but not technically" (for lack of a better term) writing bothers me, as it's not crystal clear what the intended message or information is. I'm noticing this style of writing is becoming increasingly common in the media as well, which might explain why so many people believe things that aren't true. I'll get off my soapbox now.

pmarreck 9y ago
If only it were possible to establish factual causal relationships with 100% certainty 100% of the time... sadly we do not have that utopia and must thus deal with language that speaks in terms of degrees of certainty
- mistermann 9y ago
  What I'm referring to is the increasing frequency of newspaper and TV to use language that technically doesn't claim things to be fact, if you parse the words veeeeeeeery carefully, but a casual reader (aka the vast majority of the public) might easily conclude what is presented is fact, rather than just possibilities or allegations. Or in other words, language that hides uncertainty from the consumer. As I noted, this probably wasn't your intent, but I'd like to think it doesn't hurt to point out. Sometimes clarity matters, sometimes it doesn't. For example, not that it particularly matters, even in this conversation, based on your last comment I'm still left with somewhat of a feeling that you don't necessarily agree with this notion. On one hand, who cares right? On the other hand, large portions of the general public absolutely believe with 100% certainty things that are at best allegations at this point, because they have read or watched so many news stories that intentionally or not are worded to make possibilities sound as if they are facts. I think this is a very big deal, and if the higher caliber of people on HN don't, to me that also is a big deal.
  - pmarreck 9y ago
    I think what you're describing is essentially dishonesty, and I would join you against it were it to come to that. I am frankly deeply unsettled by the "allegations are facts" flavor of current "debate". Have we not learned anything since the Salem witch trials?
    - mistermann 9y ago
      We're not learning much that serves overall humanity lately, at least in North America.