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That a law like this is even necessary seems absurd to me. A child learns by doing, by making mistakes by itself. By being curious about the world. By feeling t

That a law like this is even necessary seems absurd to me. A child learns by doing, by making mistakes by itself. By being curious about the world. By feeling the consequences of ones actions. Of course parenting is needed, but much less restrictive as it apparently is. My parents sent me to the UK when I was 12. i knew no-one. Yes, there was a school and a host family that fulfilled my basic needs, but I had to become selfconscious and responsible. I would never want to miss that. Your parents won't always be here and the earlier you learn to get on by yourself, the better. A child must develop a sense of self dependency IMO. Disclaimer: I'm from Europe.

graeme 9y ago
That's the point of the law. In many north american jurisdictions you can have your children taken from you if you let them roam around freely. There was a notable story of a parent in Vancouver who had to stop letting his kids take the city bus to school because a neighbour complained.
- mrleiter 9y ago
  Wow, so hard for me to grasp. I didn't know. When I was young I used to climb on trees all the time. I remember one incident where a neighbour called my mother and told her that I was doing that and that she should tell me to stop this as it was dangerous. My mother told her that this was none of her business. For such a drastic measure (taking ones child away) much more severe neglect is needed here in Austria (e.g. drug abuse, violence,...)
  - xxpor 9y ago
    Remember though, the reason it became a news story was because it was so absurd. Kids take public transit to school here in Seattle all the time.
  - graeme 9y ago
    That's the way it should be. Unsure why it's different in North America. I think it's because the agency faces severe consequences from a false negative, so they err on the side of false positives. It is also very hard to get the bureaucracy to drop a case once it has been brought to their attention.
- abrichr 9y ago
  Link to story: https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/09/07/canadian-officials-crack-down-on-single-father-for-letting-his-kids-ride-the-bus/ https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/09/07/canadian-officials-cr...
eco 9y ago
After some high profile incidents states started passing laws to protect the children of reckless parents but in their panic they didn't spend enough time defining what endangering a child really means. Child protective laws are difficult because you can't just enumerate the list of things that could harm a child so they need to be somewhat vague but the way words like "endanger" are interpreted by people turns out to vary widely (shocker!). In the case of Utah, things like letting your children walk home alone or go to the park by themselves was already considered perfectly fine by Utah's Child Protective Services (who supported the passage of this law) but they were still obligated to open investigations when someone reported these innocuous events. Now they don't need to.
ambrosite 9y ago
If you are from Europe then you don't get it. This is mostly an American thing and it has been going on for years. I recall a story from about 10-15 years ago where a couple from Europe (I think they were Dutch but I'm not 100% sure) was arrested in New York City for leaving their child outside on the sidewalk while they entered a cafe for a few minutes and ordered coffee. They could see their child through the cafe windows the entire time. They expressed shock upon being arrested because such behavior was normal and commonplace in their country.
- thesimon 9y ago
  Probably this case: http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/14/nyregion/toddler-left-outside-restaurant-is-returned-to-her-mother.html http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/14/nyregion/toddler-left-outs... She was Danish and left her child in the stroller outside while dining inside. Doesn't seem like a big issue to me, but I can see why Americans might see it as an issue.
rimliu 9y ago
Ironically, is it not a law in UK that children younger than 12 cannot be left without adult supervision?
- thesimon 9y ago
  https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-safe/leaving-child-home-alone/ https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-s... No specific age limits.

graeme 9y ago

That's the point of the law. In many north american jurisdictions you can have your children taken from you if you let them roam around freely. There was a notable story of a parent in Vancouver who had to stop letting his kids take the city bus to school because a neighbour complained.

mrleiter 9y ago
Wow, so hard for me to grasp. I didn't know. When I was young I used to climb on trees all the time. I remember one incident where a neighbour called my mother and told her that I was doing that and that she should tell me to stop this as it was dangerous. My mother told her that this was none of her business. For such a drastic measure (taking ones child away) much more severe neglect is needed here in Austria (e.g. drug abuse, violence,...)
- xxpor 9y ago
  Remember though, the reason it became a news story was because it was so absurd. Kids take public transit to school here in Seattle all the time.
- graeme 9y ago
  That's the way it should be. Unsure why it's different in North America. I think it's because the agency faces severe consequences from a false negative, so they err on the side of false positives. It is also very hard to get the bureaucracy to drop a case once it has been brought to their attention.
abrichr 9y ago
Link to story: https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/09/07/canadian-officials-crack-down-on-single-father-for-letting-his-kids-ride-the-bus/ https://usa.streetsblog.org/2017/09/07/canadian-officials-cr...

eco 9y ago

After some high profile incidents states started passing laws to protect the children of reckless parents but in their panic they didn't spend enough time defining what endangering a child really means. Child protective laws are difficult because you can't just enumerate the list of things that could harm a child so they need to be somewhat vague but the way words like "endanger" are interpreted by people turns out to vary widely (shocker!). In the case of Utah, things like letting your children walk home alone or go to the park by themselves was already considered perfectly fine by Utah's Child Protective Services (who supported the passage of this law) but they were still obligated to open investigations when someone reported these innocuous events. Now they don't need to.

ambrosite 9y ago

If you are from Europe then you don't get it. This is mostly an American thing and it has been going on for years. I recall a story from about 10-15 years ago where a couple from Europe (I think they were Dutch but I'm not 100% sure) was arrested in New York City for leaving their child outside on the sidewalk while they entered a cafe for a few minutes and ordered coffee. They could see their child through the cafe windows the entire time. They expressed shock upon being arrested because such behavior was normal and commonplace in their country.

thesimon 9y ago
Probably this case: http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/14/nyregion/toddler-left-outside-restaurant-is-returned-to-her-mother.html http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/14/nyregion/toddler-left-outs... She was Danish and left her child in the stroller outside while dining inside. Doesn't seem like a big issue to me, but I can see why Americans might see it as an issue.

rimliu 9y ago

Ironically, is it not a law in UK that children younger than 12 cannot be left without adult supervision?

thesimon 9y ago
https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-safe/leaving-child-home-alone/ https://www.nspcc.org.uk/preventing-abuse/keeping-children-s... No specific age limits.