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Social pressure is fine, the problem is that right now people leverage the law to force their culture of helicopter parenting on people not complying. Frankly,

Social pressure is fine, the problem is that right now people leverage the law to force their culture of helicopter parenting on people not complying. Frankly, I think it should go even further, it should be a civil offense to frivolously report child endangerment based only on the fact that children are unsupervised. Even with a protection bill, people will still report parents if there are no consequences, and not everyone on the enforcement side will get the message. Best to level the playing field so helicopter reporters will have some skin in the game.

jxcl 9y ago
I agree with the concept of free-range parenting, and I see where you're coming from re. civil offenses for frivolous reports, but that carries the burden with it that perhaps some things that should be reported will go unreported. Isn't the reverse better?
- andersonmmi 9y ago
  It's not the reporting that's the problem, it's the overzealous prosecution of families that end up in government's crosshairs. I expect the rate of reporting won't change, but the abuses by local agencies will be abated somewhat.
- rayiner 9y ago
  > Isn't the reverse better? No. Being a kid is comically safe these days, there is room to move in the other direction. It's also a matter of setting cultural norms. When CPS issues a civil citation for reporting someone for having stuffed animals in the crib, that tells people that worrying about such frivolities is not okay.
jlg23 9y ago
> it should be a civil offense to frivolously report child endangerment based only on the fact that children are unsupervised. So when I see children alone and think they might be lost, what do I do? Trust the runaways who tell me that all is good? Creepily follow them until they reach their destination? What you call "frivolous reporting" in one area would be "criminal neglect" in another. That's the whole idea of child protection services: Give them slightly more power to investigate than an ordinary citizen, so they can make an informed decision according to the law. After all, the reporting is not the problem, lack of standards/consensus what good parenting means en detail is. > not everyone on the enforcement side will get the message Lack of ongoing training in law enforcement should, IMHO, never be a reason not to change things for the better.
- abiox 9y ago
  > So when I see children alone and think they might be lost, what do I do? do they appear to be in distress? are they in some strange location away from civilization? quite possibly "nothing" is the correct answer, because "alone" doesn't mean much. if you really have reason to think they're "lost", you could ask whether they are and if they need an assist in finding their way.
- tarboreus 9y ago
  Maybe leave the kids alone?
- harryh 9y ago
  Maybe mind your own business? Especially if you ask them and they tell you they are fine and to stop bothering them.
sidlls 9y ago
What one parent considers reasonable is not necessarily so. For example a neighbor in our town house community considers it reasonable to allow his 5-year old and 3-year old to play outside unsupervised, including "free-ranging" across busy streets and such.
- tropo 9y ago
  On the parenting quality scale, there ought to be a huge gap between "good parenting" and "illegal parenting". Lots of crummy stuff should be in that gap.
- harryh 9y ago
  3 is a little young but I was definitely playing outside and crossing streets by myself by the time I was 5.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    So was I, but the streets weren't busy and there was plenty of grass and other open areas to play in. Hell, I used to bike and walk to school a couple miles away by myself starting in first grade. This is a community that is basically all pavement next to the only major road into or out of the town that is always busy. There are gradients in circumstances and what is reasonable, is my point. We ought not be too rigid nor naively permissive.

jxcl 9y ago

I agree with the concept of free-range parenting, and I see where you're coming from re. civil offenses for frivolous reports, but that carries the burden with it that perhaps some things that should be reported will go unreported. Isn't the reverse better?

andersonmmi 9y ago
It's not the reporting that's the problem, it's the overzealous prosecution of families that end up in government's crosshairs. I expect the rate of reporting won't change, but the abuses by local agencies will be abated somewhat.
rayiner 9y ago
> Isn't the reverse better? No. Being a kid is comically safe these days, there is room to move in the other direction. It's also a matter of setting cultural norms. When CPS issues a civil citation for reporting someone for having stuffed animals in the crib, that tells people that worrying about such frivolities is not okay.

jlg23 9y ago

> it should be a civil offense to frivolously report child endangerment based only on the fact that children are unsupervised. So when I see children alone and think they might be lost, what do I do? Trust the runaways who tell me that all is good? Creepily follow them until they reach their destination? What you call "frivolous reporting" in one area would be "criminal neglect" in another. That's the whole idea of child protection services: Give them slightly more power to investigate than an ordinary citizen, so they can make an informed decision according to the law. After all, the reporting is not the problem, lack of standards/consensus what good parenting means en detail is. > not everyone on the enforcement side will get the message Lack of ongoing training in law enforcement should, IMHO, never be a reason not to change things for the better.

abiox 9y ago
> So when I see children alone and think they might be lost, what do I do? do they appear to be in distress? are they in some strange location away from civilization? quite possibly "nothing" is the correct answer, because "alone" doesn't mean much. if you really have reason to think they're "lost", you could ask whether they are and if they need an assist in finding their way.
tarboreus 9y ago
Maybe leave the kids alone?
harryh 9y ago
Maybe mind your own business? Especially if you ask them and they tell you they are fine and to stop bothering them.

sidlls 9y ago

What one parent considers reasonable is not necessarily so. For example a neighbor in our town house community considers it reasonable to allow his 5-year old and 3-year old to play outside unsupervised, including "free-ranging" across busy streets and such.

tropo 9y ago
On the parenting quality scale, there ought to be a huge gap between "good parenting" and "illegal parenting". Lots of crummy stuff should be in that gap.
harryh 9y ago
3 is a little young but I was definitely playing outside and crossing streets by myself by the time I was 5.
- sidlls 9y ago
  So was I, but the streets weren't busy and there was plenty of grass and other open areas to play in. Hell, I used to bike and walk to school a couple miles away by myself starting in first grade. This is a community that is basically all pavement next to the only major road into or out of the town that is always busy. There are gradients in circumstances and what is reasonable, is my point. We ought not be too rigid nor naively permissive.