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But to what end? What is their endgame? The USSR testing boundaries in the Cold War made sense because they needed real data for their concrete plans to cross t

But to what end? What is their endgame? The USSR testing boundaries in the Cold War made sense because they needed real data for their concrete plans to cross the Rhine and conquer Western Europe - that’s what the Cold War was all about! Now it’s 2018 and I know Russia has lost their designs on Germany and France and seem primarily motivated to maintain a buffer territory, but testing limits is only going to move Russia’s neighbors into NATO - whereas if they at least played-by-the-rules and not acted so hostile and belligerent then it’s possivle they’d still hold a far more legitimate sway over eastern Ukraine and maybe even the Balkans.

220V_USKettle 9y ago
"There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!" -Cosmo
EliRivers 9y ago
Again, going on the opinions of others (who are in positions such that they should know, but ultimately it's all opinion) a lot of it (by no means all) is about prestige and being seen and respected as a world power again. Which is not just for show; if people respect you as a world power, they are far more likely to do what you want. Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia was made a number of promises that really weren't kept (for example, about how far NATO would wander into Eastern Europe) and when Russia objected, they were ignored. The very significant modernisation of their military and the recent adventurism is part of that. Nobody is ignoring Russia anymore. They did play by the rules; it got them side-lined and ignored, promises broken.
- gandhium 9y ago
  > Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia was made a number of promises that really weren't kept For example, not expanding NATO wasn't even a promise, it was a rumour. OTOH, Russia broke several international _agreements_ and started waging wars with their neighbours. Can you really equal those? Waging war and ephemeral promises?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
hollerith 9y ago
The leadership of Russia might be worried that the same techniques used by Western NGOs to depose the leadership of the Ukraine in 2014 will be used to depose them. The endgame might be that they remain in control of the government of Russia.
- EliRivers 9y ago
  I believe (but of course cannot prove) you underestimate Putin. Real political threats get neutered (Alexei Navalny et al), tame opposition parties get induldged. The West is by no means sweetness and light in their attitude towards and dealings with Russia, but foment a revolution in Russia through the use of NGOs? Fantasyland.
- gandhium 9y ago
  Sorry, leadership in Ukraine wasn't "deposed". President simply fled the country.

220V_USKettle 9y ago

"There's a war out there, old friend. A world war. And it's not about who's got the most bullets. It's about who controls the information. What we see and hear, how we work, what we think... it's all about the information!" -Cosmo

EliRivers 9y ago

Again, going on the opinions of others (who are in positions such that they should know, but ultimately it's all opinion) a lot of it (by no means all) is about prestige and being seen and respected as a world power again. Which is not just for show; if people respect you as a world power, they are far more likely to do what you want. Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia was made a number of promises that really weren't kept (for example, about how far NATO would wander into Eastern Europe) and when Russia objected, they were ignored. The very significant modernisation of their military and the recent adventurism is part of that. Nobody is ignoring Russia anymore. They did play by the rules; it got them side-lined and ignored, promises broken.

gandhium 9y ago
> Following the collapse of the Soviet Union, Russia was made a number of promises that really weren't kept For example, not expanding NATO wasn't even a promise, it was a rumour. OTOH, Russia broke several international _agreements_ and started waging wars with their neighbours. Can you really equal those? Waging war and ephemeral promises?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]

hollerith 9y ago

The leadership of Russia might be worried that the same techniques used by Western NGOs to depose the leadership of the Ukraine in 2014 will be used to depose them. The endgame might be that they remain in control of the government of Russia.

EliRivers 9y ago
I believe (but of course cannot prove) you underestimate Putin. Real political threats get neutered (Alexei Navalny et al), tame opposition parties get induldged. The West is by no means sweetness and light in their attitude towards and dealings with Russia, but foment a revolution in Russia through the use of NGOs? Fantasyland.
gandhium 9y ago
Sorry, leadership in Ukraine wasn't "deposed". President simply fled the country.