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I don't put that much data out, but I don't mind being profiled. I like being suggested music that I'm susceptible to like based on other people. I think it's f

I don't put that much data out, but I don't mind being profiled. I like being suggested music that I'm susceptible to like based on other people. I think it's fine if one can infer out of my lifestyle that I would be interested in x or warn for risks of y. What is wrong with it ? I'm probably no statistical anomaly, I don't mind being part of some artificial cluster somewhere, helping having a more accurate portrayal of a type of people. I am not interesting enough that anyone will come for me specifically anyways. And from time to time, I see worried and lamenting people like here, and I still don't get it.

Tarks 9y ago
> I am not interesting enough that anyone will come for me specifically anyways. No single raindrop believes it's responsible for the storm. They don't care about you specifically, if you can profile people accurately they have a much easier time of adjusting perspectives for your own aims. You've likely already seen the results of this with the latest American election. It's gone far beyond getting you to buy more music and they're just warming up.
- hycaria 9y ago
  And ? Did the world crash, the USA's GDP sink, did people starve and die by thousands ? No, nothing happened.
  - Tannic 9y ago
    The world did crash in 2008, and people did die and starve. The surveillance regime and the consolidation of media together are being used to trick normals into saying exactly what you said in your comment, even as our environment crashes before our eyes and our governments pursue war all over the world, and as finance and corporatism continue to dismantle and exostentially threaten the global economy. Just because it isn’t in your backyard doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. The networks of power are diverse and enormous, and the surveillance regime is only in its infancy. It’s role has increased dramatically in only the last five years and that will only continue, particularly as we see the consolidation of power on the internet(behemoths like google and amazon who have sidestepped all reasonable notions of antitrust will continue to grow and their gravity only gains strength).
samsord 9y ago
This may be okay for you individually. But Facebook will treat someone with bipolar or serious impulse control issues just the same way... Assuming some level of accuracy, an algorithm could predict when someone is having a manic episode, susceptible. Its predatory and dangerous. The vast majority of people are not aware of how to protect themselves from out-of-hand tech giants and their customers. Getting ahead is becoming about how well you can unplug so that you are not being puppeteered. We all need some counter-intelligence know-how. I suggest, use rational means to work out for yourself what products are best for you and your budget, or on the other hand what political affiliations actualy represent your interests. Figuring out what's real in the world is a big task and only the most vigilant will be okay, or blow the whistle so the average person might be.
- hycaria 9y ago
  >But Facebook will treat someone with bipolar or serious impulse control issues just the same way... Assuming some level of accuracy, an algorithm could predict when someone is having a manic episode, susceptible. Its predatory and dangerous. And what would they do out of that ? People with poor mental health don't need facebook to be triggered, it seems even less harmful because it's through an interface and not a direct human interaction. >use rational means to work out for yourself what products are best for you and your budget, or on the other hand what political affiliations actualy represent your interests. I don't buy stuff mostly, it's an easy solution. And no political affiliations represent the rare interest I have that I think would undoubtedly be good.
  - zentiggr 9y ago
    Anecdotal but definitely illustrative: a close friend of my mother had serious trouble managing her bipolar states, she would start manic and it got out of control within hours or sometimes minutes. Bye bye meds, and on more than one occasion, she would spend thousands of dollars in days, vacation scams, grocery shopping for things unneeded that sat and spoiled, you name it. She made comprehensive arrangements with friends and the companies she dealt with repeatedly so she couldn't get more than a few dollars pocket money when off cycle. In this regard, my mom was an angel, saved this friend multiple bankruptcies. Anyone not so fortunate could be so easily scammed its scary. And heart wrenching.
simonh 9y ago
I was talking to my daughter about that yesterday. Suppose Facebook knows your interests, taste in music, where you live, what good you like, etc. A political campaign could use that information to tell you that their local candidate shares your interests, lived in the same town, loves the same music, supports the same charity or whatever overlaps with your profile, while knowingly avoiding telling you about things you like or are in favour of for which they hold opposing views. So you get a personally tailored, custom ad for the candidate pushing all the right buttons and concealing anything that doesn’t match or it knows you would dislike. Meanwhile it could also show you targeted attack ads on a rival customised to highlight things they know you dislike. All the information might be true (or might not), but IMHO I don’t like the idea of people intrusively trying to manipulate me like that. We all have biases and preconceptions. We’re all open to manipulation and the last thing I want is my online world to become an echo chamber, turning me into a parody of myself. In the wider context, it’s also a threat to civil society, driving a wedge between us as citizens by magnifying our differences and promoting divisiveness. That’s what the Russian interference campaign was all about.
- hycaria 9y ago
  I don't vote, I don't care. Couldn't care less about politics to be quite honest. They have a very marginal influence on my life, aspirations and happiness.
  - gglitch 9y ago
    If that's true, that's a pretty handy description of what many US leftists call "privilege." There are many marginalized people, including in developed western nations, for whom the politics you're able to ignore can have decisive impact on their day to day lives. Many of these people, like many people in general, will not have the knowledge of internet technology and policy they need to protect themselves.
    - hycaria 9y ago
      That's not a compelling argument.
gglitch 9y ago
You're saying you don't mind being profiled and don't see the harm in it, but in several places downthread you describe in detail how little you use the platform, how poorly it understands you, and how little exposure you get to it. If these things are true, you're not a good example of how harmless their profiling is for other people.
- hycaria 9y ago
  Then isn't it that a reasonable, unprofiling, harmless use is possible?
  - gglitch 9y ago
    All kinds of edge cases are possible. That doesn't in any way address, let alone refute, the widespread concerns.

Tarks 9y ago

> I am not interesting enough that anyone will come for me specifically anyways. No single raindrop believes it's responsible for the storm. They don't care about you specifically, if you can profile people accurately they have a much easier time of adjusting perspectives for your own aims. You've likely already seen the results of this with the latest American election. It's gone far beyond getting you to buy more music and they're just warming up.

hycaria 9y ago
And ? Did the world crash, the USA's GDP sink, did people starve and die by thousands ? No, nothing happened.
- Tannic 9y ago
  The world did crash in 2008, and people did die and starve. The surveillance regime and the consolidation of media together are being used to trick normals into saying exactly what you said in your comment, even as our environment crashes before our eyes and our governments pursue war all over the world, and as finance and corporatism continue to dismantle and exostentially threaten the global economy. Just because it isn’t in your backyard doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. The networks of power are diverse and enormous, and the surveillance regime is only in its infancy. It’s role has increased dramatically in only the last five years and that will only continue, particularly as we see the consolidation of power on the internet(behemoths like google and amazon who have sidestepped all reasonable notions of antitrust will continue to grow and their gravity only gains strength).

samsord 9y ago

This may be okay for you individually. But Facebook will treat someone with bipolar or serious impulse control issues just the same way... Assuming some level of accuracy, an algorithm could predict when someone is having a manic episode, susceptible. Its predatory and dangerous. The vast majority of people are not aware of how to protect themselves from out-of-hand tech giants and their customers. Getting ahead is becoming about how well you can unplug so that you are not being puppeteered. We all need some counter-intelligence know-how. I suggest, use rational means to work out for yourself what products are best for you and your budget, or on the other hand what political affiliations actualy represent your interests. Figuring out what's real in the world is a big task and only the most vigilant will be okay, or blow the whistle so the average person might be.

hycaria 9y ago
>But Facebook will treat someone with bipolar or serious impulse control issues just the same way... Assuming some level of accuracy, an algorithm could predict when someone is having a manic episode, susceptible. Its predatory and dangerous. And what would they do out of that ? People with poor mental health don't need facebook to be triggered, it seems even less harmful because it's through an interface and not a direct human interaction. >use rational means to work out for yourself what products are best for you and your budget, or on the other hand what political affiliations actualy represent your interests. I don't buy stuff mostly, it's an easy solution. And no political affiliations represent the rare interest I have that I think would undoubtedly be good.
- zentiggr 9y ago
  Anecdotal but definitely illustrative: a close friend of my mother had serious trouble managing her bipolar states, she would start manic and it got out of control within hours or sometimes minutes. Bye bye meds, and on more than one occasion, she would spend thousands of dollars in days, vacation scams, grocery shopping for things unneeded that sat and spoiled, you name it. She made comprehensive arrangements with friends and the companies she dealt with repeatedly so she couldn't get more than a few dollars pocket money when off cycle. In this regard, my mom was an angel, saved this friend multiple bankruptcies. Anyone not so fortunate could be so easily scammed its scary. And heart wrenching.

simonh 9y ago

I was talking to my daughter about that yesterday. Suppose Facebook knows your interests, taste in music, where you live, what good you like, etc. A political campaign could use that information to tell you that their local candidate shares your interests, lived in the same town, loves the same music, supports the same charity or whatever overlaps with your profile, while knowingly avoiding telling you about things you like or are in favour of for which they hold opposing views. So you get a personally tailored, custom ad for the candidate pushing all the right buttons and concealing anything that doesn’t match or it knows you would dislike. Meanwhile it could also show you targeted attack ads on a rival customised to highlight things they know you dislike. All the information might be true (or might not), but IMHO I don’t like the idea of people intrusively trying to manipulate me like that. We all have biases and preconceptions. We’re all open to manipulation and the last thing I want is my online world to become an echo chamber, turning me into a parody of myself. In the wider context, it’s also a threat to civil society, driving a wedge between us as citizens by magnifying our differences and promoting divisiveness. That’s what the Russian interference campaign was all about.

hycaria 9y ago
I don't vote, I don't care. Couldn't care less about politics to be quite honest. They have a very marginal influence on my life, aspirations and happiness.
- gglitch 9y ago
  If that's true, that's a pretty handy description of what many US leftists call "privilege." There are many marginalized people, including in developed western nations, for whom the politics you're able to ignore can have decisive impact on their day to day lives. Many of these people, like many people in general, will not have the knowledge of internet technology and policy they need to protect themselves.
  - hycaria 9y ago
    That's not a compelling argument.

gglitch 9y ago

You're saying you don't mind being profiled and don't see the harm in it, but in several places downthread you describe in detail how little you use the platform, how poorly it understands you, and how little exposure you get to it. If these things are true, you're not a good example of how harmless their profiling is for other people.

hycaria 9y ago
Then isn't it that a reasonable, unprofiling, harmless use is possible?
- gglitch 9y ago
  All kinds of edge cases are possible. That doesn't in any way address, let alone refute, the widespread concerns.