6 ms·

Well said. No matter the influence of Russians nor widespread manipulation by Cambridge Analytica, the reality is that people chose to believe these things with

Well said. No matter the influence of Russians nor widespread manipulation by Cambridge Analytica, the reality is that people chose to believe these things without their own personal endeavor into critical inquiry. And I'm not talking about that white working class "base" that people like to attribute as Trump's secret weapon. I know plenty of people, truly well meaning individuals, who are not the dumb animals most outlets like to paint the Trump supporters as. They were just conned into it all, and I'm sure shady Facebook ads had a hand in it, but ultimately it was just trusting people suckered in by a television personality (or character, even). If this election is the spark that eventually instills a sense of proper analytical reasoning skills in the United States at large, then I'll be satisified. And I say this as a person who, if I could vote in this country, would certainly have not have entertained the idea of Donald Trump at all.

forkwhilefork 9y ago
Who the hell are you to talk about Trump voters being conned or voting without critical thinking? You have no idea why people voted for him.
- matthewwiese 9y ago
  I believe you missed my point. Those that cry foul over those targeted Facebook ads also fail to realize that people were still willing to drink the Kool-Aid. Of course, it would be asinine to paint with broad strokes. But one can't disregard that it takes two to tango in exchanges of ideas and information. Edit: my horrendous spelling
  - ghthor 9y ago
    You're implying that we all were conned, yet I'm still a happy supporter of Trump and will continue to be, yet here I am not a redneck, extremely tolerant, not a racist, incredibly kind, etc. Maybe you've been conned on who a Trump supporter is.
    - matthewwiese 9y ago
      Perhaps I should have been more explicit. I was intending to refer to those who regret their choice after having realized that not all of what they read or heard was true and so made their decision on effectively just an emotional impulse. Thank you for enlightening me on why the previous user was so aggressive in his rebuke. I can see how, if somebody is happy with their choice, they may have felt slighted and assumed I implied that they, too, were conned. I can appreciate that somebody's personal calculus is different from my own. However, those whom I have encountered that regret their decision articulate it in such terms that "con" really is the proper descriptor.
    - abiox 9y ago
      > Maybe you've been conned on who a Trump supporter is. given trump's nature, it's unlikely one who isn't a fan will give much credence to such self-attestations. for example a trump supporter may say they are "not a racist", but many see that trump supporters simply do not talk about race in the same way, so the expression doesn't mean much.
sheepmullet 9y ago
> They were just conned into it all Were they conned? The truth is if the US doesn't fix illegal immigration and put a general slowdown on legal immigration then conservatives are done for and their way of life is going to be slowly destroyed. All indicators show first and second gen migrants overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.
- matthewwiese 9y ago
  Yes, the conservatives are done for. That is, the party itself will fail to stay relevant. This doesn't matter to voters. They ought to pick whoever will best serve them. So in that sense, I would argue that yes, they were conned in some respects.
  - sheepmullet 9y ago
    > Yes, the conservatives are done for. That is, the party itself will fail to stay relevant. I think it's the opposite - the people are done for. The party will just shift its stances. In many respects it already has - Trump faces almost as much opposition within his own party as from the Democrats. If Trump doesn't sort out immigration expect the US to shift closer in laws and accepted practices to the UK.
    - matthewwiese 9y ago
      Ah, I see. That's certainly an interesting hypothesis. Makes me wonder who the Republican party would target if their typical base evaporates. What would incline center-leaning individuals to continue to support the party after the shitshow that was the 2016 election? Now you've got me looking forward to how this all turns out even more! :)
      - sheepmullet 9y ago
        It could go a couple of ways - Trump could fix immigration - if "they" can remove the anti-Trump Repubs in the house or pick up a few extra seats then he has a good chance. If he doesn't then I see a shift to socially conservative (in the religious sense) but pro-welfare. New immigrants in general are socially conservative. As are a big chunk of current Dem voters - my extended family are all catholic and vote Dems.

forkwhilefork 9y ago

Who the hell are you to talk about Trump voters being conned or voting without critical thinking? You have no idea why people voted for him.

matthewwiese 9y ago
I believe you missed my point. Those that cry foul over those targeted Facebook ads also fail to realize that people were still willing to drink the Kool-Aid. Of course, it would be asinine to paint with broad strokes. But one can't disregard that it takes two to tango in exchanges of ideas and information. Edit: my horrendous spelling
- ghthor 9y ago
  You're implying that we all were conned, yet I'm still a happy supporter of Trump and will continue to be, yet here I am not a redneck, extremely tolerant, not a racist, incredibly kind, etc. Maybe you've been conned on who a Trump supporter is.
  - matthewwiese 9y ago
    Perhaps I should have been more explicit. I was intending to refer to those who regret their choice after having realized that not all of what they read or heard was true and so made their decision on effectively just an emotional impulse. Thank you for enlightening me on why the previous user was so aggressive in his rebuke. I can see how, if somebody is happy with their choice, they may have felt slighted and assumed I implied that they, too, were conned. I can appreciate that somebody's personal calculus is different from my own. However, those whom I have encountered that regret their decision articulate it in such terms that "con" really is the proper descriptor.
  - abiox 9y ago
    > Maybe you've been conned on who a Trump supporter is. given trump's nature, it's unlikely one who isn't a fan will give much credence to such self-attestations. for example a trump supporter may say they are "not a racist", but many see that trump supporters simply do not talk about race in the same way, so the expression doesn't mean much.

sheepmullet 9y ago

> They were just conned into it all Were they conned? The truth is if the US doesn't fix illegal immigration and put a general slowdown on legal immigration then conservatives are done for and their way of life is going to be slowly destroyed. All indicators show first and second gen migrants overwhelmingly vote for Democrats.

matthewwiese 9y ago
Yes, the conservatives are done for. That is, the party itself will fail to stay relevant. This doesn't matter to voters. They ought to pick whoever will best serve them. So in that sense, I would argue that yes, they were conned in some respects.
- sheepmullet 9y ago
  > Yes, the conservatives are done for. That is, the party itself will fail to stay relevant. I think it's the opposite - the people are done for. The party will just shift its stances. In many respects it already has - Trump faces almost as much opposition within his own party as from the Democrats. If Trump doesn't sort out immigration expect the US to shift closer in laws and accepted practices to the UK.
  - matthewwiese 9y ago
    Ah, I see. That's certainly an interesting hypothesis. Makes me wonder who the Republican party would target if their typical base evaporates. What would incline center-leaning individuals to continue to support the party after the shitshow that was the 2016 election? Now you've got me looking forward to how this all turns out even more! :)
    - sheepmullet 9y ago
      It could go a couple of ways - Trump could fix immigration - if "they" can remove the anti-Trump Repubs in the house or pick up a few extra seats then he has a good chance. If he doesn't then I see a shift to socially conservative (in the religious sense) but pro-welfare. New immigrants in general are socially conservative. As are a big chunk of current Dem voters - my extended family are all catholic and vote Dems.