7 ms·

I wonder how Facebook devs feel when they read such posts. Do they feel rejected ? shameful ? Does their salary really outweigh this collective disapproval of

I wonder how Facebook devs feel when they read such posts. Do they feel rejected ? shameful ? Does their salary really outweigh this collective disapproval of their peers ?

madeofpalk 9y ago
I worked for a less-than stellar online publication in Australia. Think low-budget Daily Mail. I didnt care, I still got paid and got to switch off and do my own thing when I wanted to. I'm not my job.
- alcover 9y ago
  That is what I suspect but still.. Respect in the eye of peers is a human need. If I met a developper and learned he works for FB, it would be visible on my face that I feel somewhat put-off.
  - Analog24 9y ago
    A lot of people have more important things to worry about than the respect of their peers.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - hueving 9y ago
    >Respect in the eye of peers is a human need 'Peer' is very flexible. This could be a comparison to people the same age in other careers. Also, keep in mind that Facebook engineers are constantly surrounded by other Facebook engineers so their SE peers probably do approve. They collectively don't think Facebook is a problem so they implicitly approve of each other.
- dawnerd 9y ago
  I worked for eHow. We felt the same as the people complaining about it. But it paid the bills. Did get to learn how to scale REALLY fast.
- dclowd9901 9y ago
  “I’m not my job” You are when your job requires you to sidestep your morals.
  - joering2 9y ago
    I heard once that if there is something - whether of a monetary value or not - that allows you to "sidestep your morals", then you didn't have any morals in the first place.
    - cheeze 9y ago
      Then I'd argue that I don't have any morals in the first place. There are differing levels of how strongly I feel about certain moral values I hold. For example, working for a company that dealt in wholesale killing of others is obviously worse than working for an advertising network. Would I work for doubleclick for $1M a year? Hell yeah. Would I spy on citizens of my country for the same amount? No. Does that make me not have morals? I don't know.
  - madeofpalk 9y ago
    Sure. Okay then. That doesn't bother me. I still go to the pub after work with friends and have a good time.
    - dclowd9901 9y ago
      Must be nice to live free of consequence.
  - tudelo 9y ago
    Can you explain your reasoning for claiming that working at a place that publishes low-quality news is immoral?
    - dredmorbius 9y ago
      Examine the present embroglio over Facebook, Cambridge Analytica, weaponised viral clickbait, fake news, radicalisation, etc., etc. Media are the information sourcing and feedback loop for societies. The print media went through its crisis of awareness in the early 20th century. See especially Lippmann's Public Policy.
colordrops 9y ago
I met some of them. They either don't think about it, or they actively revel in not being one of the proles that aren't in on it. The ones that stress about it eventually leave.
AndrewKemendo 9y ago
Does their salary really outweigh this collective disapproval of their peers? Isn't that the going ethos currently? Something akin to: Pay me as much as possible, don't ask me to be part of your culture, don't ask me to work more than 40 hours a week, don't ask me to take stock, don't have a mission statement, make sure I'm working on something that is engaging mentally.
- jsmthrowaway 9y ago
  Depends on what you mean by “going ethos.” Healthy perspective on an employment relationship from your perspective, yes. Anathema to a large number of Silicon Valley startups where you will likely get branded as neither a culture fit nor a team player, as well, yes. It’s wise in the Valley to hold such an opinion but not make it very prominently known. There are a number of people who want your job and will say something more palatable to your employer, and eat your free meal while shipping a feature at 10pm because they buy into the posters on the wall. Many allegations of ageism (but not all) can probably trace back to something like this, in my uninformed gut opinion, because you will almost certainly get replaced by a new grad when the hammer falls. I don’t even see it as personal, but a demonstration of incentives: they can get a loud 40 from you or a quiet 80 from a newly minted BSc. QED. Just decline invites and push back on over 40. Expressing that attitude at a typical company within this audience basically paints “please lay me off” on your back. When you’re getting into post-senior titling, or you’re really specialized in a tough req to fill, is when that approach becomes more feasible.
rphlx 9y ago
I don't use FB and definitely do not like their business model, but it's also true that their users are there voluntarily and most of them are at least vaguely aware that they're being aggressively data harvested by an amoral, profit-maximizing corporation. So I don't see a legit reason to blame or hate on the devs there. Especially when you consider that most of them work on the "good" rather than the "evil" part of their stack.
- qwerty456127 9y ago
  > their users are there voluntarily Not really. Many people just feel they have to use Facebook to connect with the society efficiently. Some people even consider those who don't use Facebook weird.
  - rphlx 9y ago
    The network effect is strong but it does not make FB use necessary or involuntary. You will not be put in a cage, fined, beaten, fired, etc, for not using FB.
    - hueving 9y ago
      Yep, but you might be left out of many events and slowly become a social outcast amongst your friends. As a first-hand non-facebook user, this aspect really blows.
  - myrandomcomment 9y ago
    That's their problem. I never use FB and it does not hurt one bit. People have to be responsible for their own choices. No one is forced to use FB. Their weak will is not my problem.
- Yhippa 9y ago
  Doesn't FB keep track of (possibly profile) people who don't directly use FB? They can possibly profile you from using data brokers and information actual FB users give to them.
dclowd9901 9y ago
They’re probably brushing up their linkedin pages
secondarychris 9y ago
I actually just got a job there out of school, starting in a few months. Reading these comments is certainly interesting although it's not news to me that Hacker News hates Facebook. I've long been skeptical of the effects of social media though, and I'm taking this job mostly just because doing otherwise seems like a really poor career choice. Plus it seems like Facebook is here to stay, and I can dream of helping to fix the problem instead of just enabling it.
- aylmao 9y ago
  Good attitude (: EDIT: Is HN's Facebook hate getting so heated I'm getting down-voted for sending some good vibes to a newgrad about to start her/his first job? I bet you all took you first job at Doctors Without Borders helping children in Angola. FFS the Waltons are the scourge of this world but I don't blame the kids going off to work at Walmart. I bet a lot of you pay taxes in the US too-- those taxes financed the war in Afghanistan but you didn't move to Morocco, did you? Give me a break. Let this kid come in with a good attitude, eyes open, loud and proud. Who knows maybe he'll turn some heads. The guy signed and it is a good career move, what's wrong with cheering the guy up. Disappointed at you HN.
  - arsenico 9y ago
    Actually, it is down to you to make a change, and do ethical things. There are ways to influence things which you mentioned from the war in Afghanistan to privacy issues with Facebook. But to do that, you have to care.
    - aylmao 9y ago
      I agree (:
- not_kurt_godel 9y ago
  You are enabling it. You know that and it will gnaw at your soul and make you deeply unhappy as long as you work there.
rplnt 9y ago
I worked for an AV vendor for years. The online hate it gets is huge and constant (mostly wrong, but some points are valid). And even though I don't like the monetization strategies for example, I believe the product itself was OK, and most importantly helpful to many. As a Facebook user I obviously don't like what they do with the data, but at the same time I think they provide an OK service that is beneficial to many. I wouldn't mind working as a developer there on what I imagine is overwhelming majority of positions.
avree 9y ago
I think most of their peers are mature enough to realize that the poor (historic) management decisions of a company (which are now catching up to said company) are not reflective of the personality or character of the hundreds of thousands of employees performing various roles at said company.

I wonder how Facebook devs feel when they read such posts. Do they feel rejected ? shameful ? Does their salary really outweigh this collective disapproval of their peers ?

madeofpalk 9y ago

I worked for a less-than stellar online publication in Australia. Think low-budget Daily Mail. I didnt care, I still got paid and got to switch off and do my own thing when I wanted to. I'm not my job.

alcover 9y ago
That is what I suspect but still.. Respect in the eye of peers is a human need. If I met a developper and learned he works for FB, it would be visible on my face that I feel somewhat put-off.
- Analog24 9y ago
  A lot of people have more important things to worry about than the respect of their peers.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- hueving 9y ago
  >Respect in the eye of peers is a human need 'Peer' is very flexible. This could be a comparison to people the same age in other careers. Also, keep in mind that Facebook engineers are constantly surrounded by other Facebook engineers so their SE peers probably do approve. They collectively don't think Facebook is a problem so they implicitly approve of each other.
dawnerd 9y ago
I worked for eHow. We felt the same as the people complaining about it. But it paid the bills. Did get to learn how to scale REALLY fast.
dclowd9901 9y ago
“I’m not my job” You are when your job requires you to sidestep your morals.
- joering2 9y ago
  I heard once that if there is something - whether of a monetary value or not - that allows you to "sidestep your morals", then you didn't have any morals in the first place.
  - cheeze 9y ago
    Then I'd argue that I don't have any morals in the first place. There are differing levels of how strongly I feel about certain moral values I hold. For example, working for a company that dealt in wholesale killing of others is obviously worse than working for an advertising network. Would I work for doubleclick for $1M a year? Hell yeah. Would I spy on citizens of my country for the same amount? No. Does that make me not have morals? I don't know.
- madeofpalk 9y ago
  Sure. Okay then. That doesn't bother me. I still go to the pub after work with friends and have a good time.
  - dclowd9901 9y ago
    Must be nice to live free of consequence.
- tudelo 9y ago
  Can you explain your reasoning for claiming that working at a place that publishes low-quality news is immoral?
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    Examine the present embroglio over Facebook, Cambridge Analytica, weaponised viral clickbait, fake news, radicalisation, etc., etc. Media are the information sourcing and feedback loop for societies. The print media went through its crisis of awareness in the early 20th century. See especially Lippmann's Public Policy.

colordrops 9y ago

I met some of them. They either don't think about it, or they actively revel in not being one of the proles that aren't in on it. The ones that stress about it eventually leave.

AndrewKemendo 9y ago

Does their salary really outweigh this collective disapproval of their peers? Isn't that the going ethos currently? Something akin to: Pay me as much as possible, don't ask me to be part of your culture, don't ask me to work more than 40 hours a week, don't ask me to take stock, don't have a mission statement, make sure I'm working on something that is engaging mentally.

jsmthrowaway 9y ago
Depends on what you mean by “going ethos.” Healthy perspective on an employment relationship from your perspective, yes. Anathema to a large number of Silicon Valley startups where you will likely get branded as neither a culture fit nor a team player, as well, yes. It’s wise in the Valley to hold such an opinion but not make it very prominently known. There are a number of people who want your job and will say something more palatable to your employer, and eat your free meal while shipping a feature at 10pm because they buy into the posters on the wall. Many allegations of ageism (but not all) can probably trace back to something like this, in my uninformed gut opinion, because you will almost certainly get replaced by a new grad when the hammer falls. I don’t even see it as personal, but a demonstration of incentives: they can get a loud 40 from you or a quiet 80 from a newly minted BSc. QED. Just decline invites and push back on over 40. Expressing that attitude at a typical company within this audience basically paints “please lay me off” on your back. When you’re getting into post-senior titling, or you’re really specialized in a tough req to fill, is when that approach becomes more feasible.

rphlx 9y ago

I don't use FB and definitely do not like their business model, but it's also true that their users are there voluntarily and most of them are at least vaguely aware that they're being aggressively data harvested by an amoral, profit-maximizing corporation. So I don't see a legit reason to blame or hate on the devs there. Especially when you consider that most of them work on the "good" rather than the "evil" part of their stack.

qwerty456127 9y ago
> their users are there voluntarily Not really. Many people just feel they have to use Facebook to connect with the society efficiently. Some people even consider those who don't use Facebook weird.
- rphlx 9y ago
  The network effect is strong but it does not make FB use necessary or involuntary. You will not be put in a cage, fined, beaten, fired, etc, for not using FB.
  - hueving 9y ago
    Yep, but you might be left out of many events and slowly become a social outcast amongst your friends. As a first-hand non-facebook user, this aspect really blows.
- myrandomcomment 9y ago
  That's their problem. I never use FB and it does not hurt one bit. People have to be responsible for their own choices. No one is forced to use FB. Their weak will is not my problem.
Yhippa 9y ago
Doesn't FB keep track of (possibly profile) people who don't directly use FB? They can possibly profile you from using data brokers and information actual FB users give to them.

dclowd9901 9y ago

They’re probably brushing up their linkedin pages

secondarychris 9y ago

I actually just got a job there out of school, starting in a few months. Reading these comments is certainly interesting although it's not news to me that Hacker News hates Facebook. I've long been skeptical of the effects of social media though, and I'm taking this job mostly just because doing otherwise seems like a really poor career choice. Plus it seems like Facebook is here to stay, and I can dream of helping to fix the problem instead of just enabling it.

aylmao 9y ago
Good attitude (: EDIT: Is HN's Facebook hate getting so heated I'm getting down-voted for sending some good vibes to a newgrad about to start her/his first job? I bet you all took you first job at Doctors Without Borders helping children in Angola. FFS the Waltons are the scourge of this world but I don't blame the kids going off to work at Walmart. I bet a lot of you pay taxes in the US too-- those taxes financed the war in Afghanistan but you didn't move to Morocco, did you? Give me a break. Let this kid come in with a good attitude, eyes open, loud and proud. Who knows maybe he'll turn some heads. The guy signed and it is a good career move, what's wrong with cheering the guy up. Disappointed at you HN.
- arsenico 9y ago
  Actually, it is down to you to make a change, and do ethical things. There are ways to influence things which you mentioned from the war in Afghanistan to privacy issues with Facebook. But to do that, you have to care.
  - aylmao 9y ago
    I agree (:
not_kurt_godel 9y ago
You are enabling it. You know that and it will gnaw at your soul and make you deeply unhappy as long as you work there.

rplnt 9y ago

I worked for an AV vendor for years. The online hate it gets is huge and constant (mostly wrong, but some points are valid). And even though I don't like the monetization strategies for example, I believe the product itself was OK, and most importantly helpful to many. As a Facebook user I obviously don't like what they do with the data, but at the same time I think they provide an OK service that is beneficial to many. I wouldn't mind working as a developer there on what I imagine is overwhelming majority of positions.

avree 9y ago

I think most of their peers are mature enough to realize that the poor (historic) management decisions of a company (which are now catching up to said company) are not reflective of the personality or character of the hundreds of thousands of employees performing various roles at said company.