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BTW does anyone know how Viber and WhatsApp (both are very popular there) operating in Russia? Do they cooperate?

by coolspot 9y ago

gagabity 9y ago
WhatsApp cant cooperate by design they don't have the keys although they do have some metadata, not sure about Viber.
- mercora 9y ago
  Maybe they could provide access to the phones data though. In more or less the same way WhatsApp Web works.
- coolspot 9y ago
  My understanding is that law requires backdoor access [111], you cannot just shrug it off as "we are end-to-end" encrypted. You must have a backdoor or not allowed to operate in Russia. [111] http://news.softpedia.com/news/russia-wants-encryption-backdoors-in-telegram-whatsapp-viber-others-505557.shtml http://news.softpedia.com/news/russia-wants-encryption-backd...
- mort96 9y ago
  How do we know WhatsApp doesn't cooperate? It's closed source, and owned by Facebook no less, so how can we know there's no backdoor?
  - gagabity 9y ago
    You can analyse the traffic data being sent by the App, also there are third party Apps that work on the WhatsApp network.
    - mort96 9y ago
      You can maybe verify that the app doesn't currently send messages anywhere, but what if there's a way for Facebook to send a request to WhatsApp for a dump of all messages within a date range?
varjag 9y ago
Viber and WhatsApp are integrated into Russian lawful intercept (I know, right) since November 2016. Skype since 2013.
- wepple 9y ago
  Source?
- morsch 9y ago
  They are supposed to do that or they are cooperating? How does it work? The local binary uploads encryption keys? The server tells the client to disable e2e? There are public reports[1] that they are refusing to comply with similar requests eg in the UK. [1] who knows what goes on behind closed doors... https://news.sky.com/story/whatsapp-denies-government-access-to-encrypted-messages-11043069 https://news.sky.com/story/whatsapp-denies-government-access...
  - varjag 9y ago
    For a long time e2e was optional in the messengers, not sure when the transition happened exactly. Jurisdiction user databases with contact lists, location data and like are accessible either way.
    - wepple 9y ago
      You made a bold claim; do you have an ounce of evidence to back it up?
xenator 9y ago
They do, this is discussed many times on russian tech sites as fact by experts.

BTW does anyone know how Viber and WhatsApp (both are very popular there) operating in Russia? Do they cooperate?

gagabity 9y ago

WhatsApp cant cooperate by design they don't have the keys although they do have some metadata, not sure about Viber.

mercora 9y ago
Maybe they could provide access to the phones data though. In more or less the same way WhatsApp Web works.
coolspot 9y ago
My understanding is that law requires backdoor access [111], you cannot just shrug it off as "we are end-to-end" encrypted. You must have a backdoor or not allowed to operate in Russia. [111] http://news.softpedia.com/news/russia-wants-encryption-backdoors-in-telegram-whatsapp-viber-others-505557.shtml http://news.softpedia.com/news/russia-wants-encryption-backd...
mort96 9y ago
How do we know WhatsApp doesn't cooperate? It's closed source, and owned by Facebook no less, so how can we know there's no backdoor?
- gagabity 9y ago
  You can analyse the traffic data being sent by the App, also there are third party Apps that work on the WhatsApp network.
  - mort96 9y ago
    You can maybe verify that the app doesn't currently send messages anywhere, but what if there's a way for Facebook to send a request to WhatsApp for a dump of all messages within a date range?

varjag 9y ago

Viber and WhatsApp are integrated into Russian lawful intercept (I know, right) since November 2016. Skype since 2013.

wepple 9y ago
Source?
morsch 9y ago
They are supposed to do that or they are cooperating? How does it work? The local binary uploads encryption keys? The server tells the client to disable e2e? There are public reports[1] that they are refusing to comply with similar requests eg in the UK. [1] who knows what goes on behind closed doors... https://news.sky.com/story/whatsapp-denies-government-access-to-encrypted-messages-11043069 https://news.sky.com/story/whatsapp-denies-government-access...
- varjag 9y ago
  For a long time e2e was optional in the messengers, not sure when the transition happened exactly. Jurisdiction user databases with contact lists, location data and like are accessible either way.
  - wepple 9y ago
    You made a bold claim; do you have an ounce of evidence to back it up?

xenator 9y ago

They do, this is discussed many times on russian tech sites as fact by experts.